TR Member Perks!

I’d first like to personally thank Daniel Vavra for allowing TechRaptor this interview. For those of you that do not know, Daniel Vavra is a game designer and writer that has been in the industry for about fifteen years. Mafia: The City of Lost Heaven was the first big project he led back in 2002, where he was both director and writer. He returned to help with the writing on the sequel as well, Mafia II.

Most probably know him now for the successful Kickstarter campaign attached to his newest project, Kingdom Come: Deliverance. Kingdom Come: Deliverance has since gained a lot of attention, with many people following the development vlogs quite closely. It is the first game for Warhorse Studios, a development company based in the Czech Republic that Vavra helped found.

As of now, Vavra seems to play the role of the voice for Warhorse Studios, as he is featured in most of the videos attached to Kingdom Come: Deliverance.  He continues to plug away on the game as they hope for a Q4 2015 release date.

For those hoping this would be about Kingdom Come: Deliverance, I am sorry to disappoint. Recently, Daniel has been vocal about GamerGate and the attached issues on Twitter, and we here at TechRaptor were looking to see what his views were in a more in-depth manner.

Some small edits were made for clarity at Vavra’s request.

One final thing: the ideas expressed here are not necessarily shared by myself or TechRaptor but are the interviewee’s own.

What is the biggest difference in the gaming industry when comparing now to when you worked on Mafia: The City of Lost Heaven (2002)? Better or worse?

The industry is much better now. We can be independent. We can self-publish our games, even on consoles. We can speak directly to our fans through social networks. There are new ways to fund development. All that is awesome and ideal for growth of the scene and more original games. There are also many more communication channels – social media, Youtubers, bloggers. Back in the day, the Internet was very small, paper mags held all the power, and the journalists asked boring questions like “how many weapons/cars/levels are you going to have?” I was trying to write a sophisticated mature story, and most of them wanted to know if it’s going to be possible to drive over people. Now, when I am trying to make mature realistic historic game, some people ask why we don’t have female knights.

You’ve worked both as part of a larger company, 2K Games, and now independently at Warhorse Studios. Do you see a difference in the way the gaming industry treats independent developers and those working for larger studios?

When you work for a big Publisher you do what you are told. There is very little chance that you will ever be able to work on your own stuff. And it’s perfectly OK. You are getting money in exchange for your loyalty and nobody is holding you there. You can leave if you don’t like it. I did it, took a lot of risks and hoped that finally I would be able to do what I always wanted. But suddenly a lot of people who think they know what’s good for me and the world started to tell me and many other developers what we should do, only that they don’t give anything in exchange.

I grew up during communism, when comics books were prohibited as capitalist decadent propaganda, western movies were censored, any book that could be in conflict with socialist ideology was prohibited and you went to jail for saying what you think. So I am allergic to any kind of censorship in the name of any ideology. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I would like to give all the ideologues a piece of advice – If you want something to be made, do it yourself. Everyone will be happy.

Are women well represented in the gaming industry? Not as characters in a game, but as developers, designers, etc.

I worked with many women in the past. Two were my bosses. We have several women in our team as well and I hope that they are happy and treated like anyone else. We have a very flat structure, so anyone can ask me or Martin in case they have any problems. We even have two married couples working at Warhorse, and in the past I saw several other marriages of co-workers at other companies. The only thing that I’m interested in when we hire someone is their talent. Nothing else. I can’t speak for other companies, but I really doubt that it’s different in the US or anywhere else.

The funny thing is, that when you ask actual female developers like Amy Hennig (of Uncharted fame), they will tell you they never had any problems. But the people who are constantly talking about this issue are journalists and bloggers who have never actually even worked at a gaming company.

And the funniest thing is, that when you look at how many women are actually working at those magazines criticizing gaming industry for sexism, you will realize that it’s the same as in gaming companies, 10-20% at most. Polygon has 21 editors and only 5 of them are women. And when you look at their audience it’s 80% men. What a sexist magazine!

Is misogyny a problem in the gaming industry? 

Define industry. There are hundreds of million people playing games, so it’s very likely, that some of them are going to be stupid assholes. But saying that the industry is misogynist, because some idiot wrote something on Twitter is absurd, and I strongly believe that it’s used as a distraction so they don’t have to talk about the real problem here. When you are accused of something, accuse your opponent of something much worse. When somebody writes hysterical, aggressive, manipulative articles calling people ‘basement neckbeard troll scum’, he should know what’s gonna come.

I was attacked on the Internet many, many times, because I often tend to say stuff people don’t like, but I never ever had a need to whine about it in a magazine and play a victim. When stuff gets serious and somebody really is doing some ugly shit, the best thing you can do is call the police and not tweet about it.

And there is also another very important thing. A large sum of gamers are teenage boys, who kinda naturally tend to do stupid things and are often quick on conclusions and insults. So no, the industry is not misogynist. Stupid people are misogynist.

We know that GamerGate came out of the idea that “gamers are dead.” Obviously, it has gone beyond that now. What do you think the end goal of the GamerGate movement is and do you agree with them?

I don’t think that there is one goal. It’s just a lot of people which are not happy with the state of gaming journalism. So I am going to talk about my personal motives. It took me two years to start a company. We almost went bankrupt several times. I think that what we are doing is really something no one has done before, and we are really trying to do it as well as we can –  a realistic, historically accurate depiction of medieval Europe with a mature story.

And then we are called racist because there are no people of color in our medieval Bohemia world, because there are biblical illuminations in our country with Queen of Sheba (who happened to live in Africa 2000 years before our game). And on top of that we were called sexist, because we had a stretch goal to add playable female character into our game. As if it was costless to write and implement a whole new questline into the game. All this when the game is in an early stage of development, and they don’t have a clue about the actual story. Do you think that anyone would want to be involved in such absurd discussions during a campaign on which his existence as a studio depends?

This happened to many developers. Assassin’s Creed had 5 different articles about its lack of a female character on the front page of an industry website in one day. Five! Next to each other. And we can continue: the Far Cry 4 cover “scandal,” Stanley Parabble was accused of racism, Wildstar was accused of sexism, God of War, Hotline Miami, Bioshock, Divinity Original Sin, Witcher… Nobody ever dares to argue or protect his art, because it would mean instant accusation of misogyny/racism/homophobia/sexism… And then you realize that the people who are accusing others everyday have terrible conflicts of interests and very weird ethics. The pot calling the kettle black.

Do you think that the accusations of corruption are as deep as many would have us believe?

I don’t know and I don’t care. The biggest problem we have is, that there is a group of people that think they know what’s right and what’s wrong and that they have a mission to make the world a better place and protect the oppressed by any means. They don’t even care what the “oppressed” people think. They censor any feedback they don’t like. They try to censor Twitter. They think that they are better than the rest. It’s funny that they are absolutely unable to have any discussion or provide solid arguments. Have you ever seen any of them in direct confrontation with their opponents? I guess you didn’t, because they only know how to bark at others from behind the fence and then how to play victims when somebody barks back.

And they will never be happy. If you don’t have a gay character in your game, you are homophobic, if you do have gay character in your game, you are homophobic, because they don’t like the character. If women in your game look good, you are sexist, if they look bad, you are sexist, if you can fight with them, you are misogynistic, if you can’t fight with them, you are using them as objects, if you don’t have any women, because there is no correct way how to have them, you are misogynistic.

It’s a witch hunt and it’s affecting my artistic freedom.

You have been very vocal on Twitter the past week about GamerGate and in one tweet you mentioned the fear many developers have of being blacklisted. You also mentioned you put your reputation on the line by speaking out. Do you think that fear of blacklisting is justified? 

When you look at the moral standards of some of those people. When you see them calling respected people with different opinions “Faded crackheads, shitlords and misogynistic basement neckbeards”. When you see that one of the biggest gaming sites (Polygon) has a blacklist of people they don’t like to hear from, what would you expect? Many people also don’t go deep into the issue and they make an opinion just based on the hysteric reaction to anonymous threats, while the whole thing is about something absolutely different.

Yes I do think that some of the journalist will not like me and our game. I believe that some people may start thinking that I support people who hate women even though I absolutely do not. I may lose some friends. But I think that fighting for freedom of speech and artistic freedom is very important. And I think that some of journalists just crossed the line and somebody should say that.

Leigh Alexander, who writes for several mainstream magazines, has a PR agency at the same time while she is an editor at Gamasutra and threatens people that “She is a megaphone that could destroy them” and says that Adam Baldwin is a “washed up crackhead”. WTF is that? How could she still have a job? And that same person is teaching us about ethics and writing articles about childish misogynistic basement trolls? Give me a break!

Will the GamerGate issue have any real effect on your approach to your upcoming game, Kingdom Come: Deliverance? That could be changing a character, a story, or part of the world.

No. We had a strong playable female character before all this started. We have gay characters in the game, and we have different minorities in the game, because all I want is to have a mature, strong story. A story that I wanted to tell for years, and I am not going to change it because of outside pressure.

 

Again, I want to thank Daniel Vavra for this wonderful interview and wish him the best as he works on his newest game.

Note: the ideas expressed here are not necessarily shared by myself or TechRaptor but are the interviewee’s own.


Andrew Otton

Editor in Chief

Editor in Chief at TechRaptor. Lover of some things, a not so much lover of other things.



  • Doh

    Bravo!

  • Ax

    now this is a dev i can respect

  • onandonagain

    GREAT interview! And Daniel Vavra is awesome.

  • Smokratez

    What a fucking boss. I am buying your game, regardless of anything to show my support for someone who isn’t scared to speak his mind.

  • daggot

    based

  • Kyle W

    This. This is what #Gamergate wants in the industry. We don’t *care* what your Race/Religion/Orientation/Etc… are. We just want to enjoy the hobby that we love in a reasonable, open & honest way.

    ‘Gale’ agrees- https://imgur.com/gallery/g0zZzPs/new

  • Replication

    A fantastic interview. Daniel Vavra is a true hero for making his voice heard, and not compromising, when those seemingly simple acts can be enough for some people to condemn him.

  • Steven

    Thank you for a great Read

  • Warlock

    My god. This guy is beyond awesome.

  • digginit

    Having experienced censorship for the sake of socialism, he’s understandably angry about having to be censored for the sake of political correctness.

    And the fact that many times those who impose the censorship aren’t very good people themselves.

    Ext: Wow, I am not used to seeing ads.

  • Patrick Toworfe

    Awesome interview. I agree with absolutely everything he said regarding women in both the gaming industry and games themselves. People will NEVER be happy no matter what you do and the key is to just ignore the unreasonable people and make whatever content you want. Obviously, having good writing and interesting characters should be important, but it should never be a political statement or have an agenda. The way to move forward with games and diversity is to make it matter in context, no for the same of tokenism. Interesting and diverse ideas are better than narrow minded direction based on ‘who might be offended’.

  • cirithungol

    Based Vavra is based and Mafia is a classic!

  • Elite

    10/10 review

  • AIR_CAV

    As a game lover his comment about his artistic freedom being threatened by no talent hacks.

  • ZForce

    Awesome interview. I really wish other people in the game industry would come out of hiding and provide their thoughts. We must stand united to stop what’s happening. To be afraid and be silent is to let all of this continue.

    Edit: I’ll be buying his game to show support. Plus I love RPGs. Thanks, dude!

  • Bob Cu

    Absolutely based.

  • benjamin hardy

    im buying his next game out of respect

  • Livnthedream

    Yeah I am going to have to go out of my way to make sure to grab his next game even if I do not intend to play it. Support those we want to see more from.

  • “…they only know how to bark at others from behind the fence and then how to play victims when somebody barks back.” Amen to that. Great interview.

  • Ano

    “…Kingdom Come: Deliverance, I am sorry to disappoint.” actually I thought it was about KC! Oh well I can wait for more info on that game! Looks awesome so far!

  • Delance

    Great interview. Thank you so much for having the courage to speak the truth about how toxic things can get. Here’s to other devs to do the same.

  • Lucas Tonoli

    The basest developer.

  • Ncrdrg

    Great interview. I’ll keep that game in mind.

  • Ajt

    Ty Mr. Vavra. My interest in your game has spiked. Thank you for being a well spoken reasonable gentleman who stands up for the speech and the freedoms of others against the professional oppresment brigade.

  • LC

    Great interview and very good points. Finally a voice of reason and honsty in an ocean of busybodies, fundamentalists and trolls. Thanks, Daniel.

  • Worker Ant

    This game will be purchased.

  • Lunios

    Yep, gonna buy that game.
    I also expect the gaming press to completly trash because of that.

  • Jiří Dvořák

    Fucking brilliant!! *clap clap clap clap*

  • Shogun1x

    Fuck yeah! This guy is awesome.

  • JackDandy

    Great interview. You guys got yourself a reader with his adblocker turned off, and Kingdom Come got itself an extra purchase.

  • Suzaku Kururugi

    This is a real nigga right here. I’m making sure I buy his game.

  • Kav P

    As a female who works in games, what are the odds that if I make a single comment criticizing some of the points raised in this interview I will be swamped with abuse from all the other commenters in a manner that completely contradicts the claims that this interview are trying to make? 🙂

  • LC

    Maybe you should just try instead of convicting everyone here(?) in advance? Personally, I’m always open for a reasonable discussion.

  • Jiří Dvořák

    These odds are quite high, but if it happened, you would be swamped because people disagree with you or because they want to defend Daniel, not because you are a woman… And I guess I know which point you don’t agree with and I also think it was too categorical.

  • 7-D Sensei

    He is right, he has been lamblasted by this political correctness horses shit and he see through it, respect that man.

  • Lars Anderson

    This man for president of the world.

  • Lars Anderson

    No one is stopping you. Critique away.

  • Reptile

    Me too, well not only for that, look at that, it is like Mount and Blade for the next generation!

  • Koyomi K

    give it a shot.

  • Reptile

    With this start, (i hope) more developers will leave the curtain and speak with reason.

  • Reptile

    If you can stand your points with logic and doesn’t go calling people bad names then sure, please express your opinion, just don’t call everyone who doesn’t agree with you “sexist” or so.
    But first, I must ask this: Do you work in game industry, or do you simply make games independently? those are two different things and you need to make it clear (not saying one is better than another, both have its pros and cons)

  • Reptile

    This guy is awesome! I hope that one day he or someone like him will be my boss in game industry.

  • Grey

    And here I was on fence about buying this game. For this interview alone I’d pay the full price of the game and more. They’re taking donations to fund the game right? I’m going to find that.

  • Meafy

    SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!
    What ever happens , thank you

  • Grey

    Why would it matter that you’re female? This is the internet, not a middle school playground. You respond to the comment and personality behind it, not to expectations based on physical appearances. Assuming you’d even receive otherwise within a post can become a self-fulfilling prophesy too easily.

  • Grey

    Political correctness is quite literally socialist censorship. It’s even more terrifying how many proponents of it don’t realize that fact.

  • Kav P

    I work in localisation and am a member of the IGDA, including the “Women in Games” special interest group, many members of whom would denounce a lot of the dismissals in this interview. I am curious, though: where is the definition that states that making games independently is not being part of the industry? That’s like saying that to be a freelance translator would mean I’m not part of the industry. And I’m not sure I’ve seen an example of people throwing around “sexist” for people who don’t agree with them.

    I’ve already been doxxed once in this #GamerGate fiasco for saying that death and rape threats are never okay (the irony!) and making a non-partisan, tongue-in-cheek video about “The Sarkeesian Effect” so if it’s all the same with you I don’t think I’ll be posting any critique here. I just think it’s telling that a pro-#GamerGate interview is completely bereft of any critical analysis or questioning of anecdotal evidence in its comment section, whereas any article that is skeptical of #GamerGate and its claims to ANY degree quickly becomes a veritable warzone.

    I do appreciate your invitation to engage, though. It makes for a nice change. If only it reflected a wider trend in this whole ordeal.

  • Grey

    I was doxxed too, really early on in the whole thing. It’s kiddies and twits playing hacker, little more. So what are your criticisms of the points made in this interview? You said you had some. All I’m seeing is “vaguely stated people I work with would denounce unspecified dismissals” before you dismissed the conversation entirely with “It’s telling” that the interview is “bereft of critical analysis or questioning of anecdotal evidence”, “in the comments”. His anecdotal examples were hardly vague and could easily be found by looking up the people who work for him or the names he mentioned. The same of course can’t be said for your anecdotal examples given your preference for anonymity in this, which I can respect, but not when it comes with such a contradictory stance.

    You said you had some analysis to offer us in your first post and a number here said we’d like to see it. Is this like a tease? “Oh I know the truth of all this, but I’ll never tell! None of your are critiquing the article, but I don’t want to either.”

    Just, you know, say something real. Please.

  • Lars Anderson

    I’ve seen so many examples of people slinging ‘sexism’ in the industry; you’d have to be blind to miss it. Can’t agree with you there. You’re still condemning a broader demographic on the basis of a few bad apples. And it’s pedantic at this point to claim rape and death threats are not ok, but this is the internet we are talking about.

  • Pekingduckman

    It’s not simply contained to “socialist” countries though. In fact, America underwent a similar type of censorship with the Comic Book Authority dealing with comics, Hays Code dealing with Hollywood movies, and even as of recently, “moral panics” or those advocating “family values”, or the obscenity trials with heavy metal and hip hop music.

  • Kav P

    “such a contradictory stance”? All I said is that I beg to differ. I’m not stating that the people who wrote this article are lying cowards.

    I kind of sense some antagonistic aggression seeping out of the cracks here, so I’m going to take my leave before it gets worse. I hope this article continues to give you joy.

  • DanielGearSolid

    buying the game because of this

  • Dickbutt

    ”Criticizing me is abuse”

    Really?

  • Brezals

    *applauds*

  • Reptile

    I saw none, they’re simply questioning your points, as normal discussions do, please stay and stand for them.

    I said they where different things, not that they’re appart, when I say game industrie I’m saying the BIG companies, that spend a LOT in marketing doing the “capitalized” game, while independent developers have a more freedom of approach, doing what they want, the big industry stays with the demographic studies, what people most buy, what they are more willing to buy, because they need to profit big, while indie developers, sure needing the money, doesn’t need the same amount as a big companie, that got a LOT more of employees and costs, while indie developers are up to 15 people, most of sharing from the profit of their games, is that need for money that makes big companies do some game, while indie developers got a lot more freedom, because even if a few (1000 people) buying a indie game is high profit, while for a big company it pays nothing. That is why I said they’re completely different, Both indie and big companies are about game, BUT they’re worlds appart.

    As I said one is not better than the another, both have its pros and cons, like: man-work, costs, freedom of creativity, etc etc.

  • Reptile

    Also don’t feel offended when people challenge your viewpoint, don’t be so…sensitive (i couldn’t find better word, sorry).
    Please explain to them if they’re asking for it, sure someone up there used a little of sarcasm but don’t be intimidated by it. If people do not start name-calling each other it is still a good discussion.
    Also if someone disagree with you and question your arguments, he is being…antagonistic? This is how discussions work, you have two (or more) points and you start to question each others, until you highligh both points as something short and logical.

    Also what are you going to do? Cry out or stand for your points? I really want you to stay and discuss your points, we all want.

  • Lionshare

    Much respect to Daniel, this interview was amazing.

  • AnarKreig

    Not only does he sport a magnificent beard, but he also says smart fucking things. Maximum respect for Mr. Vavra.

  • Kav P

    Hey Dickbutt. I remember you. You had nothing relevant to say last time, either! You’re hysterical. 😀

  • Jonny Monroe

    Bravo sir. Nothing to add that hasn’t been said but posting to show support.

  • Kav P

    Seriously? I’m not afraid of having a contradictory opinion to someone else. If you look through my comment history you’ll see that I’ve really enjoyed engaging with people who have a multitude of different opinions about this issue. I love debate and I love reasonable, light-hearted discussion.

    This comment thread just creeps me out, for lack of a better word. The unanimous, unflinching, uncritical praise makes me feel uneasy. I’m happy to engage with people about this issue on another thread or whatever, as games are something I’m passionate about and #GamerGate has been something I’ve been very interested and involved in. This just doesn’t feel like the right place.

  • Reptile

    There is cunts everywhere, it doesn’t matter if you are a snowflake of some sort, if you are it or that. There will always be stupid people, therefore the fact they do exist do not dismiss those who speak with reason.

    I would like to say an example, some weeks ago, here on Brazil there was a girl who was calling a black skinned soccer player by racist slums, she was judged and condemned by justice, she paid her debt with society, BUT yesterday some people burned out her house. I know she is wrong for being racist, but that is an excuse to burn a house? It could have killed her family.

    As an analogy, you can say that there is people wrong (both sides, every side, if this is a “side” thing anyway), they are cunts, they are being bad people, BUT we cannot burn the whole “gamergate” thing just because some people are being bad people. There are really valid points in the gamergate thing, about honest journalism in games, not about that scandal, but about big companies with money or not, paying reviewers to talk good about game, that isn’t fair, you’re lying to people and misleading them (not you you, those companies).

    As you were attacked, there was people who were attacked by some biggots simply because they disagreed with feminism and thought that we can have equality without the need to name it somehow. There was people that also were censored because they just criticized those pro-feminist texts, you should not censor those who criticize, shure there IS flame that needs to be extinguished, but let’s not point the fire extinguisher to those with valid reasonable points. I’ve saw reasonable comments on websites like kotaku and eurogamer being removed, while the flamming ones still were visible.

    If you make non-partisan info material and people criticize it, filter the flame and accept some critics, maybe some people just want you to improve your work, for more harsh they can sound.

    In behalf of gamergate, I think it does not have anything to do with feminism, sexism or anything. I think its core is about fair reviews, unbiased articles, clarification of possible involvement between writers and developers/readers, public notes about possible scandals, making everything clear (not hidding everything under the carpet, as some websites did). I’ve never seen any person with a reasonable talk (therefore excluding flames), that defended that gamergate should exclude any kind of people from gaming, if it was, was about excluding dishonest people from our main information sources.

    Also, I’ve seen more pro-feminist flame than sexist to females flame out there, therefore I do believe there is, I’ve also seen more sexism towards men, with the excuse that it “doesn’t exist” or that “There is little sexism against men” Those are, by no means, excuse to disrespect someone based on its gender (in other words: sexism). Disrespect is still disrespect, no matter against who it is.

    Thank you for posting your opinion, peace 🙂

  • Grey

    That wasn’t the contradiction I very thoroughly pointed out. No there is no aggression here, stating that you ‘sense’ it just comes off as a ‘senseless’ hand wave. I am asking for you to just say something with actual weight to it and not casually post vague accusatory statements you don’t even care to explain.

    You decried the validity of anecdotal statements in the article, but sandwiched that very criticism between two anecdotal examples of your own, both being much less accountable due to anonymity compared to the person you criticized. I only said it was a contradiction because calling it hypocrisy seemed unkind and I was trying to be extra polite despite your unfair accusations.

    You said you had some arguments to make but were worried about making them. You were invited to make them but then did not. You are expressing ‘fear’ of participating in a dialogue that you not only instigated, by complained was lacking in these comments.

    It’s rather insulting to suggest that you’d be antagonized here again and again, all while demanding dialogue, then refusing it when anyone does engage you in conversation. It is, as I said before, a self-fulfilling prophecy. When you continue to vilify others it shouldn’t be a shock if they become upset by that.

  • Grey

    The support in this thread of comments is primarily the result of the pent up frustration many have felt over the years finally coming out, with the issues in question having built up for some time.

    People were upset with the things mentioned in this interview being the status quo and getting in the way of creativity, as Daniel Vavra explained, and causing that frustration to build.

    Simply put, it’s a huge sigh of relief in hearing someone of interest saying “what we were all thinking”, as it were.

  • MalumSanctus

    Respect to Vavra for speaking out and to TechRaptor for giving him a voice. I’ll be keeping an eye out for Kingdom Come: Deliverance in the future.

    On a side note, it is also downright disgraceful that Vavra needs to take any risk at all to report the truth, while the degenerate he mentions (Leigh Alexander) has any employment whatsoever after her disgusting acts of harassment and abuse. Thankfully, her career days are numbered.

  • Slick JMista

    Preach, brother!

  • Brandon

    Nice to see a developer who sides with reason and logic as opposed to emotion and hyperbole. Definitely buying this game now.

  • Jason

    Really look forward to your game!

  • Brandon

    No one cares that you’re female. They care that you’re wrong. You’re the one connecting the wrong dots.

  • BlackestNight63

    I appreciate Daniel Vavra for speaking his mind, and thanks to TechRaptor for providing the platform for him to do so.

  • Alex White

    I’m going to buy his game. I don’t care if its shit.

  • Kav P

    And as such I’m happy to leave you all to your relief that your opinions have been completely validated by one person on the inside. This safe space for you is clearly not the place to offer conflicting opinions, and I understand that. See you on another thread. 🙂

  • raze2012

    at this current time, there are 71 comments, 20 of which are in your comment chain, a thread that basically sums down to

    “I disagree, but am scared to state why”

    “please explain why, we are open to discussion”

    this thread has 50 people praising the article, and some 15 wishing to discuss your views on the issue. If you do not wish to do it here, that is fair. There is not many ways to respond to “I disagree”, besides “Why?”.

    keep in mind, though, this isn’t the Twitter hate sphere. We aren’t limited to 140 character “discussion”, and this site isn’t big enough (atm) for a witch hunt to occur from one comment 🙂 .

  • TehRawk

    Lets be honest here. You haven’t really said anything relevant in this thread either. You have alluded to… something. But when pressed to expand on your claims, you have refused to do so.

    To me this seems like the Sarkeesian method. It looks like you are trying to get a negative reaction from people. Just so you can point out how terrible these people are. But no one is taking the bait.

  • raze2012

    I’m sorry that there is a bad apple amogst these comments to intimidate you, and I respect your right to discuss. However, is there really a neutral place to discuss these issues freely? the closest answer to this appears to be YOUTUBE of all places. That tells you right here how polarized this issue is.

    I would love to hear some more dissenting opinions that won’t devolve to the drivel seen on twitter though 🙁 .

  • Erik Wedin

    Yes! He is right about Assassins Creed 5, He is right about Far Cry 4 and he mentions several other well known examples. Nobody dares to go against these media people throwing accusations left and right cause with the exception of gamergate the media-crowd have completely controlled the narrative with their connections. The media people talks about videogaming being “boys power fantasies” while they themselves seem to be on constant power trips not while playing games but while bullying real people in the real world. It must have been a great power trip for reporters to harass Ubisoft over bullshit!

  • Oh trust me, it was never even close to what we had here. No western comics, books or movies at all. Older books not fitting with the ideology removed from libraries. And only propaganda on TV.

  • Kav P

    Oh no, the Sarkeesian Effect! You crack me up.

  • Beatles albums were smuggled here and sold on black market!

  • Lars Anderson

    He’s spot on about the press dog piling on Ubisoft for not having a female character…only they had one in development all along. I bet a lot of devs absolutely can’t stand the controversy the press and SJWs thrive on. Hopefully more of them speak up like Vavra has.

  • Kav P

    Personally I found the BadAssDigest comment threads to be really good. Say what you want about the authors of that site, but I have so much respect for the commenters on there. Besides the obligatory troll-fighting, there were actually some interesting debates had on there by people on both “sides”. 🙂

    To be honest, I find discussion on Youtube to be a waste of time. When I make a reasonable comment on a video with a contrary opinion it gets downvoted to the point where it gets marked as spam. There’s really no point in only commenting on videos that you agree with, but I’ve noticed it’s the only way your comment really gets seen.

    I appreciate the respect you’ve given me by accepting my decision to not pursue this topic on this thread further. I wish the others would be so understanding. I hope to engage with you on another thread sometime. 🙂

  • raze2012

    Thanks for the tip. I wouldn’t have touched BadAssDigest with a 49 1/2 foot pole since the founder has pretty much pulled every possible -ist card in the book (and invented some in the process).

  • I am not a fan of your games but count on my support on your new title.

  • raze2012

    as for the rest of your comment, I completely and utterly agree that Youtube competes with 4chan as the worst place to go for reasonable discussion. However, I eventually, and consistently find neutral threads on the matter in the right places a midst the sea of hate, something I can’t say for any other site I frequent about the issue (and I lurk on a LOT of sites).

  • TehRawk

    “When I make a reasonable comment on a video with a contrary opinion it gets downvoted to the point where it gets marked as spam.”

    Can you link to one of these reasonable comments?

    “I appreciate the respect you’ve given me by accepting my decision to not pursue this topic on this thread further. I wish the others would be so understanding.”

    You haven’t committed to anything in this topic. You said you had a point to make, but you never made it. For some reason you have backed out of making your point completely. No one has threatened you, or dismissed you. People are just interested to see do you actually have something to say on the subject. You have assumed that you will be treated differently because you are a woman. But not once has anyone gave any indication that, that will happen here. Not once. You have got to see how this reflects on you. It just seems like you are trying to stir the pot. Make your point, or retract what you said.

  • TehRawk

    HUGE fan of the original Mafia. That game was so far ahead of the times, in many areas. I was putting off backing Kingdom Come : Deliverance, as I had a lot of money tied up in other Kickstarters. But this article has encouraged me to back your game right now.

    Also big respect to TechRaptor. For being literally the only gaming site reporting this side of the issue.

  • Rory Mitchell

    I’m on the gamergate side and I think you make a great point about the lack of critical analysis within its community. For example, the cries of censorship because of 20,000 deleted reddit posts…turns out, not so much. A thread where private address information was posted and then locked, and people driving up the post count for lol’s after that lock?…yeah, that seems to be what actually happened, so censorship at that level is not an honest claim.

    Also, the conspiracy ideas with the large connection graphs is not convincing as far as having actual evidence is concerned, as much of that is simply professional collegiality, or just friendships (which does cross the line of journalistic ethics, but not in the exaggerated manner of deliberate collusion that some claim).

    That being said, the fact that Anita/Zoe/Kotaku/etc are lying moralists who hide behind attacks on their reasoned critics (by immediately labeling them as sexists), stereotype and insult entire groups, throw a group of depressed and suicidal virgins under the bus (at least the Escapist eventually apologized for participating in the attack on wizardchan, but I haven’t seen anyone else with any integrity yet from the other side), etc., is quite easy to see with a bit of research into the actual events that have occurred.

    If there is more information you have that could change mine or other people’s minds about these larger issues, then please provide it. You’ve made an important point already (though I was largely aware of it beforehand), so I’m very interested to hear if you have anything else that I haven’t learned.

  • DoombotBL

    Based Vavra, looking forward to your game.

  • Great read, great article.

  • Homer Ruglia Beoulve

    Hats off to Daniel Vavra.

  • YoungZer0

    “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.”

    Beautiful. Very smart guy. Was already interested in the game, because they were pretty transparent and the gameplay shown looked outstanding. Now I know that I’m going to buy it. Those guys deserve every bit of respect.

  • Sam Trashcan

    Refreshing article, thanks for being a counterweight to all of the crappy, uninformed opinions elsewhere. Kingdom Come looks awesome, by the way, can’t wait until it’s finished.

  • John Cobalt

    Thank you for speaking out!

  • Hey there Kav, interviewer here. I am definitely not opposed to good-natured debate as that is what will lead to solutions and action, which will make everyone a little bit happier. I say that to ask you a question, do you know of anyone I, or TechRaptor overall, can reach out to? Someone with opposing views to help spark healthy debate? Regardless of my personal views towards this whole issue, I think it is very important to hear from all sides and am willing to do just that.

  • Andrew ‘Wolfie’ Woolford

    Respect to Vavra for this, this is the kind of creative mind people should look up to, he wants to create something, and wants to stick to HIS vision, not bowing to pressure or designing by committee. Mad Props for Mr. Vavra.

  • Rory Mitchell

    I would appreciate a well-written piece on the other side of the debate as well. There has been too much demonization on both sides, and I don’t like witch hunts no matter who the target is. From how you’ve chosen to present this so far, perhaps this site will be able to put together a thoughtful rebuttal that doesn’t end up making me feel as a gamer like I’m a satanic baby-eating necrophiliac by the time I’m done reading it. That would be refreshing.

  • That’s the aim here for sure. It’s difficult to find anyone, no matter of their opinion on the issue, who doesn’t treat it flippantly or is far too vitriolic. GamerGate has brought out the worst in a lot of people. Still, I would love to see a level-headed opposition to any of what Vavra said and would be more than glad to help them get that opinion out there.

  • Kingdo Goodbomber

    King of the Internet.

  • TheSharpeful

    This is what Gamergate is about. And this guy deserves our respect in the industry.

    “when comics books were prohibited as capitalist decadent propaganda, western movies were censored, any book that could be in conflict with socialist ideology was prohibited and you went to jail for saying what you think.”

    This (something similar) is where we’re headed if we don’t stand up to the SJW’s and the self entitled “morality police” and tell them “enough!”

  • zugu

    Maximum respect, maximum integrity. Please, sir, take all my money. Vavra for president!

  • Bhil Fitch

    This was a great interview and many awesome things were said. Also, I watched the current trailer for the Kingdom Come game and I am frickin excited for it. Need to beef up my computer to be sure it will run that game. I really can’t wait. Probably going to buy the Mafia games too.

  • towblerone

    I fucking love this dude. Not in a gay way. NOT THAT THERE WOULD BE ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT. Well, there would since I’m not gay. Shit, there I’ve probably gone and offended some people.

    In any event, I never ever pre-order any game but I’m preordering Kingdom Come just to support this guy and his art.

  • towblerone

    That’s exactly what it is. Almost every comment from her is “well, I don’t think I’m wanted here, so I’ll leave.” And then the next comment is the same. lol Make a point or don’t. People who bob and weave around making their point annoy me.

  • Dickbutt

    Its funny how you are calling others hysterical whole pretending that any part on criticism on your own opinion or your person is abuse.

    Have you done anything for the Social Justice cause outside the internet actually?
    Something other than being abrasive on the internet?
    Actual Activism maybe?

    You want to compare our Social Justic Dicksizes?
    Is that what makes you relevant?
    Who has done more for people?

    See just in the last few weeks I have donated to Suicide-Prevention Charity, I have donated The Fine Young Capitalists game-jam to bring women that have never before done work in the industry into gaming.

    I have worked a womens shelter for 2 years in Lithuania, (I am from east europe by the way) and every Christmas I work in a homeless shelter simply because there was a time where I was homeless and in need too.

    So what have you done for Social Justice lately other then acting like a victim on the internet?

  • Zakqfb

    BASEDANIEL
    A
    S
    E
    DANIEL

  • BTFO

    BTFO

  • BTFO

    B
    L
    O
    W
    N
    T H E F U C K O U T

  • BTFO

    BTFO

  • Codeswish

    Based Vavra, I will play everything you create forever.

  • Mckickasstitties

    I am definitely buying this game as soon as it comes out.

  • I am a woman, I worked in the game industry for a few years and the jobs I had there were the best I ever had. Every person I spoke with, and it matters not whether they were American, German, Russian, British or Czech, was either professional and polite or very friendly. I enjoyed being part of something I value and I miss it. What’s happening now is sad and I feel the same way as Dan does about this – that it’s just to derail the discussion about the real problem and that is gaming journalism and its ethics. I actually feel ashamed. Not because I consider myself a gamer, not because someone is opressing me, but because someone is posting a large amount of bullshit and claims that it’s to protect me, to fight for me. I feel offended that someone somewhere thinks that I’m not capable of solving my own problems, more importantly, problems I don’t even have. Big surprise here: I know lots of girls and women gamers and they’re quite happy with the state of games and the whole industry. But I guess I’m just a misogynic sexist woman, that sound about right.

  • Commenter319

    Best thing out of this whole controversy so far: I had no clue Kingdom Come Deliverance was even a thing, even though that sounds like my dream game. Now I know.

    It’s unfortunate mainstream journalists were too busy scoping out Kerrigan’s breasts for potential signs of misogyny or writing article after article on “important” Twine games; so much they couldn’t even mention in passing a realistic historical open-world RPG by renowed developers, but hey.

  • Aloisia

    Didn’t know about your game before, will definitely follow your progress now. Will probably donate when I get some spare cash too. Why are you damn slavs so good at game development?

  • BeholdMyPower

    Really hope other devs see this and come forward with their own voices. #GamerGate has shown again and again that it will have your back and support you.

  • Dee Jay

    Finally someone with some sense! I can only hope more devs speak against all the bullshit muddling up gaming.

  • ryangley

    Day one purchase. Hell, I might buy it twice.

  • $111302779

    Respectable dev, good insight. A thing to note, how come there were minorities in medieval europe. 😕

  • James Fitzgerald

    Its sad you have to post a disclaimer twice in the same article.

  • Jiří Dvořák

    Jews, gypsies, possible arabian merchants…

  • Also Known As

    This is a FANTASTIC interview, and although there are a LOT of gems here, to me there are TWO key ideas he put forward that the so-called SJW crowd doesn’t seem to understand:

    1) There’s a huge independent market, and you can self-publish your games.

    2) If you want something to be a certain way, THEN DO IT YOURSELF.

    I love that he mentioned the women that he’s worked with as well–it reinforces the theme that instead of whining and complaining, you need to STFU and get to work. Make the games you want to make, and in this day and age you will find a niche market that will want to play it. If the game is REALLY good, nobody will give a shit if it’s about gays, depressives, trans folks, etc.

    People want games that are interesting, challenging, engaging, and above all, FUN. It’s as simple as that.

  • Pekingduckman

    I don’t doubt you. The disturbing thing is that today’s democracies often use far more sophisticated means of censoring unpopular opinions without actually implementing an ‘official ban’ like those done in dictatorships. For instance, in the US there are many politicians who parade under the “family values” banner and attempt to ban works they dislike by labeling them as “obscene”, and stripping them of their First Amendment protection. in the early 90s, there were US Senate inquiries onto Mortal Kombat and Night Trap, and how they allegedly corrupt American youth. They were designed to induce a moral panic among the public against the growing gaming community, even though pretty much none of the politicians even played the games they were attacking. Forgive me for quoting George Orwell here:

    http://orwell.ru/library/novels/Animal_Farm/english/efp_go

    “The sinister fact about literary censorship in England is that it is largely voluntary. Unpopular ideas can be silenced, and inconvenient facts kept dark,
    without the need for any official ban. Anyone who has lived long in a
    foreign country will know of instances of sensational items of news —
    things which on their own merits would get the big headlines-being kept
    right out of the British press, not because the Government intervened
    but because of a general tacit agreement that ‘it wouldn’t do’ to
    mention that particular fact.”

  • $58254859

    Three words. Phillipa of Hainault.

  • Kav P

    Good for you!

    Obviously as you have thoroughly researched the nature of “social justice” you will know that I personally never donate to charities (especially not ones that I have personally researched beforehand to ensure that the charity is not suspect of any violations), never actively volunteer at animal shelters around the world or at other organisations, am never involved in fundraising events for victims of natural disasters and have never, ever been employed to work with refugees or employed by the government to engage in community-building efforts in rural Japan. You got me. I may as well just stick to the Internets. :'(

  • Syltique

    Amazing interview. Put this game on consoles someday and I’ll be happy to give it a shot.

  • Kav P

    Hey there! Glad to hear from you. 🙂 Personally I would recommend reaching out to members of the IGDA, particularly in the following special interest groups:

    – LGBT

    – Game accessibility

    – Community management

    – Women in games

    Actually, there are a bunch of SIGs with members who would happily share their experiences with you. I believe they all have mailing lists and it is not a prerequisite to be a paying member in order to subscribe. Although there are many people who join the SIGs out of general interest, there are many more who are professionals actively working in the industry. I am sure you will be able to get a variety of opinions through reaching out there from professionals of many demographics, and from there get a more balanced view of the industry.
    http://www.igda.org/?page=sigs

    I am a member of several Facebook groups as well which pertain particularly to women in the games industry, and most of the recent posts have been completely appalled by what is going on at the moment. I’m pretty sure these women would not appreciate me linking to their groups directly on the comments thread of an article, but a search on Facebook for “women in games” groups may also provide you with people who are passionate about recent events and want to share their thoughts, whether they be pro-“GamerGate” or not convinced.

    Finally, I think that this page should be a good source of information for you. Someone on Twitter is attempting to catalogue people’s ideas about Gamer Gate, what it is and what it’s for. She is going out of her way to be transparent and non-partisan in her coverage of these events, even though (like everyone else) she has her own opinion of them. She wants to help give Gamer Gate the united voice that it needs and let people draw their conclusions about the movement from there: http://pixietalksgamergate.wordpress.com/

    I wish you the best of luck in your research. 🙂

  • Thanks for all of this information! I’ll be looking into it more and hopefully will find someone soon to speak with.

  • Dickbutt

    And yet you are okay with suppressing someone’s opinion if he disagrees with you.

    And yet you are alright with calling people names because they disagree with you.

    And yet despite helping out actual VICTIMS OF NATURAL DISASTERS and CALAMITIES, REFUGEES you still dont see anything wrong with someone playing victim just because someone criticizes him/her.

  • It will be released on PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_Come:_Deliverance

  • dodoking

    I would suggest Devi Ever [email protected] as I know her on twitter she is a trans person and a game developer she had tried to talk to other news sites they however ignored. last I heard she was in contact with the escapist.

  • Funny you would suggest her, as I was already looking into her!

  • dodoking

    good to know I hope you have a healthy discussion if she decides to talk with you

  • Kav P

    I have no idea what you are talking about at this point. I am disengaging. Have fun! 🙂

  • Kav P

    Wonderful! And not a problem. I would be interested to hear your results. 🙂

  • rutherford

    Daniel Vavra renews my faith that developers exist who will not bow to mindless bullying.
    And thanks to TechRaptor for touching this side of the issue when so many blindly refuse to do so for fear of reprisal.

  • Dragon_Claw

    Daniel, you are officially awesome! I will be keeping an eye on your upcoming game, that is already sweet looking. 😉

  • Kiltmanenator

    I just backed his project because of this interview. Bravo.

  • Kiltmanenator

    Mr. Vavra,

    I just backed your project because of how you’ve behaved here. You have big brass balls, and now you have my money.

    Respect

  • Kyle W

    This is avideo made by games developer, Devi Ever, who claims that most of the allegations that were made against the games industry by #Gamergate and #notyourshield, are true, you guys should interview her as soon as possible-

  • Mekadave

    Instead of fulfilling a point on the Internet Arguing Checkist (Disqualify That Opinion!), you could, y’know, actually try to argue some facts.

    Though after reading the rest of your posts between then and now, you had no interest in doing that. Feel free to prove me wrong, though. I’m not going to hold my breath.

  • Guest

    Based Davra.

  • Cogitans Iuvenis

    How is a thread filled with individuals asking you to elaborate your statements not a place for conflicting opinions? That doesn’t compute.

  • Mathew Rynes

    Censorship for the sake of socialism? SJWs are not socialists, they are reactionaries. In fact all forms of identity politics are reactionary in nature, thus counter-revolutionary.

    All forms of censorship have been carried out by forces like these in history (see the Hollywood 10 and blacklisted artists).

    EDIT: I’ll add that these are for the sake of profit-mongering (ahem, capitalism) and not equality (e.g. Zoe hiding behind identity politics in the face of her criminal methods of self promotion).

  • Mathew Rynes

    There are no socialist countries in existence.

  • thales

    hell yeah respect man

  • Mathew Rynes

    There is no such thing as socialist censorship. Identity politics is not socialism, and SJWs do not represent revolutionary socialism,

  • thales

    oooh that bait is to strong lol

  • thales

    The IGDA exists to advance the careers and enhance the lives of game developers, and one critical way we do this is by advocating for positive change around issues that affect professional game developers.

    The IGDA advocates on issues that…

    exceed the scope of any one developer or company’s ability to resolve;

    require a dialogue with others;

    affect the global game development community;

    benefit the entire development community, rather than any single individual or company;

    are neutral toward any particular skill, product, or method of game development.

    Some of the key issues we’re addressing include the following:

    Violence in video games and related social issues

    Sexism and discrimination in the game industry

    Sexism and diversity in game content

    Quality of life (“crunch time”, work-life balance, etc.)

    Internet freedom and privacy

    Positive impacts of video games

    Credit standards

    Game accessibility

    Employment contract fairness
    more sjw crap especial interest womens especial snowflake give a break lol

  • thales

    antagonistic aggression ? he said things I don’t like lol

  • thales

    Kav P • 14 hours ago

    The scariest thing I did recently was go on one of the few pro-Gamer Gate articles which was completely swamped with uncritical praise despite the obviously subjective and demographically suspect leanings (and so many upvotes on each comment) and make a sarcastic jab about how if I said a single critical thing about the article I would be swarmed upon.

    They then proceeded to swarm on me and tell me to say my critique because they were all ears and if I didn’t tell them I was just asking for attention and a coward.

    It was actually really intense and terrifying. I told them to come and find me on another, less frightening thread if they were genuinely interested. I hope they come here!

  • Rory Mitchell

    *sigh* Do you have a link to this other discussion forum so that we can confirm this post from Kav P for ourselves? I always assume that most people mean well, but that doesn’t mean that some don’t disappoint me. I really would like to see the thread and I wonder if anyone at this other site took Kav P’s assessment of us as being “uncritical and subjective” in a completely uncritical and subjective way, by not reading this comment section and not forming their own opinions.

    Really though. “Intense and terrifying”??? I seriously hope this is not real.

  • Anders Jensen

    You have my Axe!
    And our Peni!

  • Rasen

    I don’t even have a PC remotely capable of running anything resembling a modern game, but I’ll buy the ever loving shit out of Kingdom Come. This man delivered his point in a very concise, respectful manner. As someone who’s not very good at debating or getting his point across, it’s great to have people like this on our side.
    And thank you, TechRaptor, for having the balls to host something like this, knowing full well the risks that come along with it. You guys rock!

  • Michael Anon

    I had already decided I was going to buy Kingdom Come: Deliverance, but because of this interview I’m going to buy a few copies for my friends as well. Than you for having the balls to speak your mind, Daniel.

  • fecalminority

    Kingdom Come just gained a backer and TechRaptor a reader (with adbolock exception).

    On the other hand, this is exactly the reason why producers and game sites that bent the knee lost my money and support. Stay confident and make a great game like you want to make it. Freedom of expression has supporters, naturally. The other party? They make enemies naturally. Thank you for your good work.

    And thanks to IA for mentioning this site.

  • Pablo Hernández

    Total respect for Vavra and Techraptor for this interview.
    I especially agree with his comments on artistic freedom.
    Will buy Kingdom Come when it comes out

  • Pablo Hernández

    Victim by default?
    If you have something to say just say it

  • sanic

    Damn I hope my toaster can run this game, people with passion make grand games.

  • G ZA

    based vavra. Mafia was one of the best games i have ever played. Much respect to him.

  • Islamization_is_Retardation

    Awesome and fuck the leftist, hipster elitist scums out there…

  • Duke Nukum

    All that distancing from opinions… makes me sad that no one is willing to take any responsibility. It’s not credible, too.

  • Ben

    Well I buying what ever Daniel Vavra making!

  • Cotta3513

    When journalists and activists (assuming there’s a difference) start defaming people, the targeted people need to sue them for libel. In many of these circumstances there would be a very strong legal case.

  • Cotta3513

    Another point: although Vavra said that he wasn’t going to be intimidated into adding historically dubious characters just to please the activists, nonetheless he made the mistake of assuring everyone that he had already planned to stick in exactly the type of characters the activists want anyway – the usual “strong, smart” female character that is now a hackneyed archetype; racial groups based on the modern United States rather than 15th century central Europe; and of course the inevitable gay characters that are now required in every game, tv show, movie, etc. This is problematic for several reasons: firstly, because in the 15th century there were hardly any non-white people in Europe, much less central Europe (a few, yes, but mostly in southern Europe); and there wasn’t any open, overt practice of homosexual sex (yes, some did it in private, sure, but the game doesn’t represent what characters do in the privacy of their own homes at night). Secondly, it’s an attempt to conform to what the activists now expect on these few specific issues that they’ve selected as their main focus, unless he’s also planning to include people who engage in all other forms of “alternative sex” as well. Thirdly, it’s an attempt to deflect the wrath of the activists while claiming he isn’t caving in to them, which is contradictory and ultimately gives the activists exactly what they want. He shouldn’t need to assure anyone that he’s provided ANY type of specific character, since the characters should fit the context of the game. If he was making a game about Zhou Dynasty-era China or ancient Ethiopia, would he need to stick in a bunch of white characters for the sake of diversity? That would be foolish, and it’s equally foolish to fill any other type of quota that ignores the historical context.

  • W.Gao

    Let me tell you folks something as a “person of color” who was formerly deeply immersed in the activist culture: Everything they believe in is an exaggerated response to justify their emotions.

    In other words, being called a racist/sexist/whatever by a social justice activist does not really mean you are a racist/sexist/etc, and therefore there is no need to justify yourself in the first place.

  • Hulk Nogan

    Great interview, interesting perspective with an awesome and fitting shirt to boot.

  • Benjamin Peters

    What a great interview. I’ve read it before, but I saw it while browsing again and had to go over it once again. Techraptor, your excellent work just keeps bringing me back. It’s odd, I never really followed any games media at all, except for the occasional PC Gamer, until now. Now that I look back on it in hindsight, it’s because I really didn’t have any trust or even much respect for them. Nice to see some refreshing changes around here.

  • This is a phenomenal insight into what SJWs have slowly been doing to developers. “Meet these checklists or you game is terrible and we will rate it lower regardless of content, gameplay, plot, characters, ect.”

  • thamaligz

    It is very unfortunate that you automatically link communism with socialism. The difference is vast even though both ideologies are build on Marx’s theories. In Denmark there is a market economy, even though i would dare to call them the most socialistic country in EU. Compare Denmark to the US and then tell me, where do you see more censorship? In USA or Denmark?

    EDIT: This isn’t meant to be to you (Mathew Rynes), i just wanted to comment on the thread.

  • I love this man.

  • Mathew Rynes

    No.

    1. Socialism and communism both espouse Marxist philosophy, and are essentially different parts of the same process.

    2. Socialism is a transition to a classless society achieved by solving the inherent contradictions of global capitalism: a. private ownership of production opposed to the social organization of production and b. global organization of productive forces conflicting with private owners being confined to competing nation states, the cause of war.

  • thamaligz

    Well, thank you Sir! 😀 I only vaguely remember this thread which means i am quite surprised that someone is actually reading this.
    Good day to you. 🙂