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I hate myself for what I did Tuesday.

I remember voting for the first time in 1994.  Walking in to a small community center in a village of less than 500 in rural Wisconsin with my parents filled me with a Capraesque sense of awe.  Maybe it was the echoes of people shuffling through a basketball court that could only come from Hoosiers; maybe it was the act of punching an actual ballot for the first time; or maybe it was the feeling of finally being able to affect change, in an infinitesimal way, after hearing my parents talk about labor relations, income disparity, and a woman’s right to choose what she does with her own body for the overwhelming majority of my childhood.  Up until Tuesday, the act of casting a ballet gave me the same kind of feeling that Jimmy Stewart injected in to Jefferson Smith in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, or for something more modern, up until Tuesday I felt the same since of civic pride from casting a ballot as I did for knowing the words to I’m Just a Bill on Capitol Hill, or acting as Speaker of the House for the mock Congress in my American Government class in high school.

That first election was not without controversy.  There was a referendum on the ballot for funding for a new high school building.  The educators at my high school took it upon themselves to bring everyone that was going to be 18 on Election Day into the band room so they could show us all how to vote, “in favor of the school funding issue.”  I remember talking with my parents at dinner on the day of about how we were shown how to vote.  Above all, I remember listening to, and later participating in, an uncountable number of conversations around the dinner table: Organized labor (my parents combined have been members of unions for roughly 50 years), butter > guns, the need for strict separation between church and state, and a desire to ensure that everyone had equal opportunity for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

I am was a liberal.  I am was not ashamed to call myself one, even after moving to Colorado and taking a job in a conservative pocket of the tech industry, where unashamed liberals are the vast minority.  I would regularly hold court on Fridays while our design team was eating breakfast together; it got so “bad” at one point that I was given the nickname “Pinko Todd” in honor of my rampant socialist rantings.

After Tuesday, I don’t know that I can call myself a liberal anymore.

It’s not that I don’t want to call myself a liberal. After all, as I understand liberal ideals, I still believe in most of them, if not all of them.  No, I guess I’m not a liberal anymore because Bustle, The Verge, Salon, Polygon, Kotaku, Gamasutra, The Mary Sue, The NY Times, The LA Times, The Washington Post, MSNBC, and others spent the last 2 months telling me I’m no longer wanted as an unashamed, voting liberal.  They did this based on my primary hobby and the Y chromosome I was born with.  They did this after some of them told me I was dead or needed to die for the crime of holding my primary hobby as a part of my identity.  They did this because some people I don’t know made threats against people I’d never heard of before; subsequently, I was told I needed to die because of my Y chromosome and my hobby.

And for what?  The nebulous notion of making gaming “better” than it is now?  To stroke the sense of entitlement of self-proclaimed “game developers”?  To turn game developer into the third vocation in human history that is competence optional behind politician and journalist (apparently)?  Equality of Outcomes between AAA game development, good independent game development, and terrible independent game development?  An esoteric notion of games as art, based on meaningless definitions of “gamer” and “game” combined with a pejorative definition of “consumerism”?  A wanton desire to usurp the will of the consumer and the creative process?

I hope character assassinating gamers without regard for collateral damage over the last 2 months was worth it.

Tuesday resulted in several firsts for me.  I’d never voted full ticket—not in 20 years of participating in my civic duty.  I did on Tuesday.  I’ve often considered or voted for third party candidates when at the polls over the last 20 years.  Tuesday I did not.  Over the past 20 years, I’d spent between 2 and 6 weeks studying candidates and ballot measures to be as informed as possible.  This election cycle, I was finished in hours.  On this day, I stand before you to say that I did my part to hand the Legislative branch of the American government to the Republicans.  Not that one vote matters in the grand scheme of things, but every traditionally Democratic vote that goes Republican is a two vote swing.  So the Republicans own the Senate, but not with a “super majority” to completely dictate terms legislatively.

From my new perspective after Tuesday, it’s one down and three to go: Super majority in the Senate, the Presidency, and one Supreme Court justice.  I’m disgusted for writing that last sentence.

What choice did I have?  It would appear that the DiGRA was right—The Playful is Political.  It would also appear that my politics are now a matter of survival for pieces of my identity that I hold dear.  It can never be emphasized enough that 10 news outlets on the same day said I was dead or needed to die because of those parts of my identity.  Will I forgive?  Eventually.  Time heals all wounds, after all.  Will I forget?  Never.  The imgur’s will exist forever, as will the archives and screen caps of everything the hypocrites, charlatans, and their willing media puppets said and did to make me question two parts of my identity: gamer and liberal.  It is only by force of will and self-determination that I don’t let those people immure me in self-doubt and regret.  Right now, there is virtually no price too high for them to pay for what they tried to do to my identity.

There are roughly 730 days until Election Day 2016.  The media that drove me away from my political leanings is going to need every one of those days to convince me that bashing gamers from August 28th until Tuesday was just a misunderstanding.  They will need every one of those days to convince me that my input into the liberal ideology is valued regardless of my hobbies, support for GamerGate, or my gender.  The alternative is to hand both the Legislative and Executive branch of the US Government over to Republicans, and as I found out on Tuesday, it is well within my capability to do so.

Tick tock.  Tick tock.


Todd Wohling

A long time ago on an Intellivision far, far away my gaming journey started with Lock n' Chase, Advanced Dungeons & Dragons The Cloudy Mountain, and Night Stalker. I earned both a BS-Physics and a BS-Mathematics from the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire. Today I spend most of my time on PC. I left a career of 14 years in aerospace in Colorado, so I could immigrate to Norway.



  • Ben Kuyt

    Damn.

  • Olympion

    Understandable – the mainstream Left needs to cut out the identity politics BS and and focus on bread and butter issues (oh, and Peace – liberal interventionism is neoconservatism with a human face), clearly people are sick of their false War on Women narrative.

  • wcg

    Todd, what you and your country are lacking is a real left alternative. As non-American, I don’t consider the Democratic Party to be left, if anything they are a slightly less right party. Liberal is a centrist position in many other countries. I consider my self a social democrat along the lines of the New Democratic Party in Canada (well, really it’s founding incarnation, it’s a slightly left of centre party now). The media is biased in both spectrums, I hope you’d agree there, and I don’t let that deter me from fighting against conservatism. The gaming press are a pretty small influence compared to what the right is doing with Fox News, for example. Sure, there are self righteous douchebags like Max Read, Sam Biddle and Leigh Alexander but their snotty nosed remarks don’t taint the left for me. There are plenty of people fighting against poverty and real inequality that need support. Given the platform that your Repulicans have, I would never let Gamergate provide them with more power. It might be a case of the lesser of two evils but it’s clear, at least to me, which side is the greater evil.

  • The simple truth on the matter is that Gamers tend to be young people that are left-leaning. Pushing the narrative that Gamergate, a literal uprising of Gamers, is somehow a right-wing movement has only served to alienate a good number of Gamers that were on the left their whole life by telling them that suddenly they are all right-wing nutjobs. For not accepting an assault on their identity. I am pretty sure you aren’t the only one, Todd, who has voted differently than usual because of this. Left media wanted to frame this as a cultural war, as some sort of right vs. left conflict, and by doing that they are alienating everyone but the most extreme leftists.

  • I think what you Americans need is more than two parties. For a country that claims to be about freedom and democracy I don’t understand how you only have 2 options to choose from.

  • Marie Teach

    I am one of these people who has gone from a lifelong liberal to Libertarian because of gamer gate, I will be voting republican just to stop these people.

  • PancakeWizard

    Good news: You’re still a liberal.

    Bad news: You’re a liberal without a representative party in American politics.

    This ‘social justice warrior’ pejorative-type, is very much US born, I’m afraid. It *feels* global because internet, but trust me when I say other than the few impressionable student-types, most in Europe are wondering what the fuck anyone is doing listening to these bi-polar SJWs claiming ‘feminism’ or ‘progressive’ or any number of ideologies they have no business claiming or any idea what they actually mean.

    EDIT: edited out Aus, as it was pointed out that was incorrect.

  • Robert Davis

    Grats on waking up.

  • Welcome to the club of leaving a political party. FYI, I left the Democratic Party some time ago, considered myself a Republican for a while, then walked away from them. I am a genuine swing voter and when I’m really pissed I vote for third parties I may not even agree with just to say “fuck you” to the big two and concentrated on nonpartisan portions of the ballot (which is what I did this year). And you know what? IT DOESN’T HURT A BIT! Sure, I get some abuse from my Democrat and Republican pals, but I mostly feel sorry for them.

    But by the way, there IS a way to reform the Democrats: get involved in the primaries and talking to the candidates. You can have a big influence this way.

  • Todd Wohling

    WCG,

    I’d most certainly agree that there are pockets of media that are biased right (talk radio and FOX News) as well as left (the MSM outlets I mentioned above). Also, I would never have felt like I needed to speak with my vote like this if it was just the Games Media on the internet that was character assassinating gamers. I tend to agree with the idea that America’s right is by far the greater of 2 evils, but the lessor of the 2 evils isn’t listening anymore, or has perverted its ideals so far away from what I think they are (or should be) that I don’t recognize them as that much of the lessor.
    I think we’re also seeing the shortcomings of a 2 party political system. I’d love to have to option to stick it to both major parties, but to do that now would be throwing my vote away, and I can’t bring myself to go that route.
    TW

  • Bull Moose

    The Republicans have their conservative socialists as well. You did well, the first step is abandoning pointless team voting. The second step is voting your interest across party. We’re lacking any effective party that truly stands for Liberty, so we’re going to have to keep holding all elected officials accountable and flush them out of office as often as necessary.

  • 33

    They have more than two but they don’t get much attention so it seems like a wasted vote to a lot of people.

  • Duncan

    I understand why you are frustrated with the so called ‘left’ Democrats. However, the way i see it is that the people who are attacking GG in the name of Social Justice and the ‘left’ are about as representative of liberals as the harassers and doxxers are to Gamergate. My story is similar to yours but I find it surprising that you would swing so far in the other direction by voting for the Republicans. Great article btw

  • Italy GG

    50years ago right-wing people were scared away from the right from nazis/fascists.
    Now left wing people are scared away from the left by the radical Left.
    Can we all agree that extremists of both sides are just detrimental to politics?

  • GTRDesperado

    Thank you for this. You perfectly summed up my feelings this past Tuesday. Why should I vote for a political party that has determined it no longer wants me?

  • Italy GG

    If you had seen Anti-Gamergate at work you’d realize they are the equivalent of neo-fascists/neo-nazis.
    As an Italian I can spot them pretty easily, they push for supremacy, dehumanize opposition, send death threats, fear-monger…
    Gamergate is just moderate left, not “republicans”, there is a poll to prove it.
    It’s radical left (anti-gamergate) vs moderate left (gamergate), this has nothing to do with the American “right wing”.

  • Politics is a pendulum, and over the past few years we saw the far, lunatic left go to far. I am DEEPLY saddened to have seen the republican victory this past Tuesday, but in the light of #GamerGate, and the SJW loons that GG is reacting against, I completly understand that such a thing could happen. I do disagree that such things were the only reason people voted to the right this election, but I see how it had a hand in it.

    Still, I dislike the republican victory. I hope sounder heads on the left come to take the reigns.

  • SecurityBlanket

    I too first voted in 1994. I too have been a reliable Democrat. I too cast a fully Republican ballot this year.

    I did not help cast Republicans out of the bedroom so that the Democrats could venture in.

    I did not help dismantle Republican bigotry so that Democrats could erect their own.

    I did not help defeat the Republican moral crusades so that Democrats could declare their own.

    If the Democrats hope to regain some semblance of relevance, it will not be sufficient for them to merely halt these injustices. They will need to admit they have a problem with prejudice and disinformation. And they will need to make progress at correcting their recent (and past) mistakes. I foresee a very Republican government in 2016.

    Tragically, the Republicans will likely squander the opportunity and opt instead to empower large corporations and the wealthy at the expense of the people and the nation.

  • Cy

    Lots of liberals are finding out what the right has known about the left for a long time, that “classical liberalism” is dead on the left. All they have now are authoritarian socialists who want to force their worldview on everyone else for “the greater good”. It’s the religious far right without the religion. Or at least without organized religion because they’re just as zealous in their belief in “social justice” as any born again Christian that I’ve ever met. Good for you for being able to separate reality from political belief. It’s not something a lot of people can do, especially when it means voting for a party that you used to despise. b^_^

  • Cy

    I would hate to live in a country where the Democrats are considered *centrists*.

    *shudders*

  • Ryan Juel

    Been saying that for a while. Minnesota had a third party governor for a term. It was terrible. Never elect a pro wrestler as a governor. Lesson learned, and I wasn’t even old enough to vote.

  • delibean

    Great article, It sums up the past 2 months for me perfectly, I am also in the long line of former liberals who have been “Purged” by the ruling SJW’s who have hi-jacked our ideals.

  • Another Loser

    It’s because of gerrymandering, it’s what happens when we give the politicians we vote for control over who votes for them. Democrats redrew voting districts around primarily leftist areas, & the Republicans did the same with primarily rightist areas, it’s an issue of career politicians seeking job security, & it’s polarized & divided this country to a point where even folks like Glenn Beck are speaking up about how there needs to be more cooperation across party lines(seriously, Glenn Beck, let that sink in)! The issue is that professional politicians have no principles(I have far more respect for a conservative with principles than a liberal without.). I’m pretty much sick of it all, to the point that I just voted for libertarians because wanted individual freedom & lower spending, & I thought “It’s not like my vote means shit in a country that’s been sliced in such a way that only wingnuts & moonbats get any say in anything.”.

  • Another Loser

    Social liberals versus progressive moral absolutist. The moral guardians never left, they just switched parties.

  • Another Loser

    That “throwing my vote away” drivel is what lead to this 2-party BS, if you don’t vote for people who truly represent you, then you’re truly throwing your vote away.

  • Another Loser

    Then why’d you vote for them? Was it just to spite Democrats? Because that seems like a pretty silly thing to do with your country’s future.

  • POdVet

    #GamerGate Just outed the tactics used by the leftist media in ALL areas. Look at the reports these “journalists” do on everything with the same eyes you looked at it concerning gaming when you know from personnel experience that they are lying. Same lies, smears exaggerations etc. THAT is the LEFT in the USA. They lie/deny/vilify about everyone who disagrees with their agenda. Facts are to be shouted down, brand them as racist/sexist/homophobes/islamophobes etc etc. Claim they made threats…encourage trolls to get them to make faux threats, or just invent them out of thin air if none materialize. Remember when Nanci Pelosi et al were walking down the Capitol steps holding her gavel, then claimed some “tea bagger” yelled a racial slur at them? 300 camera’s surrounding them and a nice large reward offered for anyone with a recording of the “racial slur” but no one ever came forward with it. They made it up for a headline they knew corrupt media pundits would run with. They still routinely trot out that BS to claim the Tea Party is racist…While they and their sycophants brand every single minority Tea Party member as a race traitor! Do your own actual research ladies and gentlemen. Don’t left the leftist media tell you the “facts” when you can see through their BS. The Liberal agenda is and has always been subjugating others while convincing them it’s for their own good.

  • Freakydemon

    For European norms democrats are right wing, republicans are far right.

  • Freakydemon

    There are more than 2 parties, they just don’t get enough votes to matter.

  • Madrigalian

    For that you have to understand the fourth pillar of our government. The main stream media.

  • SecurityBlanket

    For as long as I’ve been an adult, I’ve judged organizations (including political parties) by their actions and not their mission statements. Neither party stands up well to scrutiny in my opinion. So while I’ve been a reliable Democratic voter for some time, I’ve always been registered non-partisan.

    Why did I cast a straight Republican ballot? First, I guess we’ve finally crossed the point where I hate the Democrats more. And second, politics has become so polarized that I no longer perceive that individual politicians matter much beyond their party affiliation.

    Besides, as a self-respecting individual I cannot support a party that actively despises me for superficial aspects of my identity. I cannot support a party that is so eager to dismiss my voice before I’ve even spoken.

  • blarbl

    Man this is what happened to me to exactly. It really hit home when I heard that awful hitpiece about GG on All Tech Considered. My family has supported our NPR station for as long as I can remember and I just started last year. Then I heard us called misogynists by such “unbiased voices” like Quinn and Leigh Alexander. No voice for the other side. No real neutral voice. Just NPR taking a huge dump on us. NPR! I had always thought they were better, and always strove to be balanced in this age of yellow journalism. Now I have to wonder how many other times they fed me that kind of bullshit and, since I wasn’t following it as closely as GG, I believed it without question. It was right before the fall membership drive. I did not renew.

    I always thought the “liberal media bias” was something stupid boomers whined about. Now I think I know what they feel like.

  • Another Loser

    Then vote third party, it’s easy, you can feel confident that you made the right choice, & I don’t want to hear any of that “waste of a vote” bull, because that attitude is why we’re dealing with this false-dichotomy of either choosing Democrat or Republican.

  • Lincoln Churchill

    I’ll never understand how Nazis/fascists became viewed as “right-wing.” They weren’t conservatives/libertarians advocating for small government and lots of individual liberty They were big government/little liberty socialists. It’s even in the name: National Socialist Worker’s Party. International socialists and national socialists weren’t such bitter rivals because they were on opposite ends of the political spectrum, but because they were so similar. Big difference was that the international socialists/Soviets vilified the wealthy while Nazis vilified the Jews (though in no small part because they tended to be wealthy).

  • SecurityBlanket

    No third party represents me either.

  • Another Loser

    Then make one, I plan to do the same, since the Libertarians I voted for this time around don’t exactly represent me(Individual freedom & lower government spending are fine with me, but I don’t particularly care for the “laissez faire” aspect). Making a political party would probably be pretty difficult, & you shouldn’t have unrealistic expectations about winning an election, but you can at least try, & maybe have some fun with it.

  • PrinceofWhitebread

    Welcome to the new reality, Todd. I, too, was/am a classical Liberal. Like you, I got to experience the huge gap between what Liberals claim to stand for and what they actually Do. Those of us in the real world understand that like Hobbes said to Calvin “Our actions show what is in our hearts.” Noticing things like this, below, also made me leave, and it keeps me away.

  • John Stephens

    The key to understanding the American system is to realize that the Democrats and Republicans are not political parties, as the term is used elsewhere, but standing coalitions of political factions. Unlike the parliamentary system, where a Prime Minister is required to form a government after each election, the US has two competing governments already formed. In theory, this allows for stable governance and a smooth transition when one side or the other exhausts itself.
    The problem is that the two sides have evolved in different directions, and have so little in common anymore that each regards the other as evil (which they are not, though they do have incompatible ideas on what constitutes good). It comes down to a slow motion civil war in which the shooting has not begun (yet). In such an environment, neutrals and independents are regarded as deserters and potential recruits for the enemy, and treated accordingly.

  • Abel Toy

    I would hate to live in a country without universal health care.

    *shudders*

  • Another Loser

    I think it’s more because the internationals promoted ideals considered socially liberal while the nationals were promoting extreme social conservativism(I use soclib & soccon in the sense of equal treatment regardless of differences versus conformity to the “norm” above all else.).

  • Todd Wohling

    Varian,

    Call it drivel if you wish, but let’s talk pragmatically for just a second. The 2 party system was around LONG before now. The founding father did an excellent job of crafting a system that would self-perpetuate. The first step in getting a realistic third party into the mix is having a candidate with enough good ideas, charisma, and force of will to deal themselves into the national conversation. The US, as far as I know, has yet to have that candidate.

  • Another Loser

    Hey, we’re overdue, you either wait for a politician of principle or become that principled politician we’re all waiting for.

  • SecurityBlanket

    Let me know when you do. Based on your description, it sounds like we share the same opinions.

  • Jake Martinez

    I abstained from voting this election for much of the same reasons. It was especially poignant to me because former President Clinton himself called out the “poison” nature of identity politics in a recent speech, even calling it the biggest “threat to future generations”.

    I don’t think he’s wrong, and frankly, I can’t support the so called “progressive” wing of my party any more because it continues to indulge in tactics that I find morally and ethically reprehensible – and yes, GamerGate was a ring side seat to this side of politics I had never witnessed before.

  • Dr.Weird

    Glad to have you aboard, Your reasons for going republican are mostly why I left, only I noticed things a few years sooner and jumped ship when I did. Either way here’s to a hell of a future ride fighting off the war on men and gamers.

  • bring on the big video game crash of 2014. An industry that watched and did nothing as its consumers were being driven away in droves by the yellow journalists they hire to promote barely functioning games to begin with.

    At this point I just want to see it all crash and burn. The industry isn’t just losing good faith, it’s full on losing people’s interest en masse as it becomes too big an issue and too much effort to differentiate the good games from the shilled bulk.

  • Olympion

    It would be easier to believe they were just a fringe minority if pretty much all the left-wing and center-left media hadn’t been promoting their narrative with regards to GamerGate. At best the likes of The New York Times and NPR acted as Useful Idiots for the SJWs, at worst they exposed themselves as their friends and allies.

  • Jack

    Welcome Todd, we Republicans are happy to have you. Like Reagan you didn’t wake up until your party left you. I hope you don’t go back to sleep. Many of the values and positions you have are valid, some you may have to adjust and others are part of a bundle of lies that need not be packaged together. What I’m saying is that I hope you realize that you needed this course correction. As you experienced, a conservative is a liberal who got mugged (in this case by his or her own party, which has become the norm from Democrats).

    Isn’t it possible that the conservative antipathy and criticism of government is dead spot on? It wasn’t until the tyranny and spitefulness of the media and liberalism (but I repeat myself) attacked you that you understood how we feel about the attacks on many of our personal lives and liberties. Conservatism is the natural home of liberty and freedom, and it is our desire for an ordered and ethical society that puts limits on the individual right to screw things up. Crime and punishment is not about criminalizing every behavior, like you’ve seen liberals do, it is about protecting the innocent while retaining our rights and freedom to enjoy our lives and honor our choices. If you get this BIG picture the rest of the details will fall into place.

    Good luck, God bless!

  • Another Loser

    Sure thing, but right now, I’m not even old enough to be a congressman, so it could be a little while.

  • Todd Wohling

    Duncan,

    I very literally couldn’t think of any other way to drive home the point other than to go shopping with the competition, if you’ll forgive the metaphor. I don’t *WANT* to be a conservative, but if taking the conservative party for a ride for 2 years serves as a wake up call for the centrist liberals to take back control of the narrative, then it was worth it.
    TW

  • Jay

    These people aren’t Socialists.

    Why do people keep making that conflation?

  • birdboy2000

    I completely understand being annoyed with the left-leaning press and much of the activist base. I am too and I voted straight democrat.

    Yet I haven’t heard a word from actual politicians of either party, one way or the other. Not a single legislative initiative related even tangentially to this. And I’ve met may too many people struggling to get by on minimum wage or disability pay – many of whom I met through games, because a game with good replay value is some of the cheapest entertainment out there per hour – to ever vote Republican.

  • Red Lagoon

  • Todd Wohling

    shinning,

    Thank you. That’s very high praise.

  • mccoma

    “Bad news: You’re a liberal without a representative party in American politics.”

    Depends on what part of liberal you mean. Truthfully, neither Democrats or Republicans are “liberal” in the classical sense. Both have their pet restrictions and their defended holy ground.

    I generally vote for people who understand and promote economic freedom. It tends to be a meta-tag for people who will restore quite a lot of freedoms that were removed in the 1900s.

  • mccoma

    Things get a bit problematic when you use one axis to describe everyone. Right and Left are really poor descriptors but they make great soundbites. 🙁

  • Jay

    That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard…

    Right wing people weren’t scared of Nazis. They just used McCarthyism to paint Communists and Socialists as evil people of a foreign power.

    Further, an SJW isn’t anything else but an extreme liberal just like there were fascists fighting to oust FDR with the Du Pont plot.

    Why attack a label instead of learning the actual history of the party and the people within it?

  • mccoma

    go google “Don’t get sick after june”. USA universal health care is a good way to kill people. I grew up under IHS.

  • Jay

    You might want to read more about their corporatism and how they silenced people as well as the social conservatism they implemented.

    They weren’t socialists and that’s just McCarthyist propaganda. If you noticed, there’s a reason that Hitler’s Socialism constantly fought Communists and why he used hated Russia at the time.

    The Weimar Republic was far more democratic and that was what Socialists actually fight for: democracy.

  • Abel Toy

    If you compare the mortality rates between USA and Europe, you’ll see why universal health care is better.

    I had an accident a while ago I wouldn’t have been able to pay in order to recover. My brother has a heart disease in addition to Asperger. My mother has fibromyalgia and multiple sclerosis. You see, without universal healthcare, we would’ve been fucked.

  • Duncan

    Yeah. I do understand, as there are only two parties it is kind of hard to form even slightly different opinions to either one and be taken seriously. It is a real shame that there are only two main parties. Where I’m from, Scotland, we have around 5 main parties that all have a fairly big voting base. This allows more diverse political thought and, I feel, it allows for more freedom of choice as these parties cover most political positions, rather than only having a centrist party and a center right party, as in the case of America. Thanks for the reply, and I really did enjoy the article

  • Ray

    the fuck they aren’t. They are neobolsheviks if that makes you feel better.

  • mccoma

    “If you compare the mortality rates between USA and Europe, you’ll see why universal health care is better.”

    Well, with children you cannot compare since most European countries don’t count child mortality like the US does (US counts all children, Europe removes some cases from their counts). Technically, every Native American has universal health care through IHS in the US. The death rate is higher than people on normal insurance and even uninsured in a lot of places.

    A cheaper for the patient health care with a decent safety net is much better for the US than the crap that was passed.

  • Thomas Fährmann

    The german gaming media (they love to give themself special names like exceptional veterans of gaming….muhmuhmuh) loves to link to kotaku or polygon articles, translate the bullshit into our language and just add another “popular” oppinion note like “yes we see the evil sexism in gaming, we demand diversity, gamergate is pure hatred (not one single journalist EVER mentioned the thunderclap project with over a millions of people, the anti bullying campaign etc.) so believe me it´s way worse here because they are only f***** parrots and then they say how cool, progressive and good they are. These people are unbelievable disgusting! Disgusting muppets earning money by writing down lies and nonsense and they get away with it because most people do not do real journalism. They are as fake as yours. I had a discussion with one of those elite special dudes and oh man, no sorry but this super special guy is so full of himself. Always having an oppinion about everything but no clue whatsoever. Just taking the info from some site that fits his own narrative and thats it. Thats called “journalism” here!

  • Abel Toy

    The fact that the US health care system is awfully done and just doesn’t work doesn’t mean there are far better working examples out there.

  • Monkey For A Peerage

    I don’t know about that. I think you will have to edit out most of northern Europe, UK, Germany, Sweden and others are all over run by SJW in my experience. In the UK they can jail you for holding the wrong opinion.
    They are trying to stop people dressing up as native Americans for Halloween in the UK. Everything I have seen in the US the will be run with by the UK SJWs including that check your privilege crap.

  • Me10

    True socialists don’t fight for democracy. They know that true individual economic freedom and political freedom are linked and socialism cannot function unless the state manages the economy. The Nazis didn’t exert total control over the economy. Rather they practiced an extended form of what is erroneously called “crony capitalism,” influencing business via political favors and punishing or dissolving businesses that didn’t play ball. All of this was done with the goal of unifying economic interests towards the purposes of the state. A different flavor perhaps, not unlike the Chinese version of socialism, but socialism nonetheless. And the links between progressive ideology and fascism have been well documented (including a number of progressive figures who expressed admiration for Mussolini’s regime).

  • Monkey For A Peerage

    Same in the UK racist/sexist/homophobes/islamophobes covers everything. Thousands of children were raped in the UK and the SJW covered it up to protect favored groups with the words racist and islamophobic.

  • Me10

    “Then don’t vote Republican because I hate those guys.” Of course, #GG people might want to consider that some of the “conventional wisdom” about the GOP found on the left is largely derived from the same kind of media bias and unethical journalism you are complaining about.

  • Tiger184

    It is truly unfortunate that it took something as vile as gamergate to open people’s eyes to what today’s Democrat party has devolved into. I’ve been watching closely anticipating such an outcome.
    This is a classic case of someone biting the hand that feeds them. Will they realize what they’ve done? Time will tell, but imho I don’t expect anyone on the other side getting any insight any time soon.

  • Me10

    The hard left in Canada is as bad as here. The abuses of the Human Rights Tribunals on freedom of speech have created a climate of fear and suspicion, silencing many moderate citizens. That’s exactly the sort of thing many on the hard left here, and their allies in the Democrat party (Reid, Schumer, etc) are aiming for. Sure, there are many others on the left who engage honestly and value civil liberties above political expediency, but they are spread out along the continuum of the left. Moving further left won’t get you any closer to them.

  • Keirnoth

    MY NAEM IS JESSE VENTURA, AND THIS IS THE (QUINN?)SPIRACY THEORY

  • Whatdoyouthink

    Born again evangelicals are nice people because of their values. These values hinge on individual identity. If they do something against their values, they’ll know it was wrong. SJW just want CONTROL. By any means necessary. Do not offend them or they will go after your life by swatting or your livelihood. It is the SJW forcing bakeries out of business. Gamers are only the newest group to be attacked by sjw leftists. Social justice warrrrrriors.

  • Me10

    That’s simply not accurate on two levels: 1: There are plenty of center-right, right gamers involved (Adam Baldwin, who coined the phrase GamerGate, anyone?) The simple numbers across the US political spectrum, where GG is having the largest impact is evidence of this. 2: If the focus of GG is media dishonesty, the right in the US know this experience better than most. Pretending GG is an internecine squabble within the left is a fantasy.

  • Me10

    Your statement indicates you don’t understand the issue. Health care insurance is what is not universal in the states. And in countries that supposedly have universal health care, people are regularly denied certain kinds of treatments because of costs, assertions by medical bureaucrats of the “futility” of treatment, and the unavailability of staff or equipment (waiting lists, etc .) causes untold numbers of delays.

  • Me10

    Wrong again. The mortality rates have much more to do with demographics and culture than actual access to health care. And when you look at comorbidity for certain conditions (cancers, for example), the US outperforms countries where patients have wait significantly longer for diagnoses and treatment.

  • Cain

    Socialism: System of social organization in which private
    property and the distribution of income are subject to social control (i.e. big central government run by small group of elitists) ;
    also, the political movements aimed at putting that system into
    practice.

    Socialist: One who advocates or practices socialism.

    Ditto what Ray said. The fuck they aren’t.

  • yak_disqus

    No. You need to think independently… The most “liberal” document in American history is the US Constitution. People who piss on the Constitution are the same ones pushing the media narrative and frankly attacking dissenting voices in Gamergate. This gentleman just realized who really believes in individual rights and who the real fascists are.
    Rights to free speech, ownership of property, freedom to associate… these are our rights. Calling people “stupid”, “misogynist” etc. because they called you out for ethics shortcomings =– that’s what today’s DEMs and MSM do.
    They framed the so-called “culture wars” because they do not want you to think for yourself.
    It is the Republicans today that are defending the US Constitution, not the Democrats just as it was Abe Lincoln who founded the Republican Party way back when and proceeded to run for the Presidency on an anti-slavery platform.

  • ninmecu

    I’m almost glad #BasedCarlin isn’t alive today. We’d NEVER hear the end of it while he would put this shit straight.

  • Ray

    The democrats / “progressives” of 2014 remind me a lot of the neoconservatives back in 2006.

  • Jericho79

    actually the largest age demographic of video game players has always historically been age 28+. The ESA’s current stats on this shows for 2014 the largest age group is actually age 36+ with 18-35 being the next largest. Current average age of a video gamer is currently 31.

    (information from here: http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2014.pdf )

    Yes there’s a large group of college age minds but the larger group is adults. Sadly the bias towards left leaning ideals in the college age group (well, due to college) shows itself pretty strongly.

    Heck my branch of The Art Institute just opened up a “Gender studies” class as part of the curriculum. The name itself gives me the shivers.

  • TheLastPlainsman

    Generally I agree. Things to keep in mind is that when the ‘Left’ got hijacked, things like the KKK, The early 1900’s attacks on free markets, sending Japanese to internment camps during WWII and stealing everything they owned without any compensation, and the fact that is was a majority Republican vote that got the Civil Rights Act in the 60’s passed.
    Some of the dumb things were the Patients Bill of Rights, sending very mentally ill people out on the street, and resulting in the term Hobo being usurped for the term Homeless.
    Really what current politics needs is getting the Baby Boomer generation out of it.

  • Playahaters_Ball

    Yeesh. Which AI campus is that? My AI (Minnesota) had a required ‘Anthropology’ class that was essentially a stealth course in Cultural Marxist Critical Theory.

  • Jay

    That’s not Socialism. That’d be state capitalism. It’s also very perplexing that a growing number of people continue to use Wikipedia definitions when we know increasingly that Wikipedia can be biased on issues through biased editors.

  • Jay

    *rolls eyes*

    I notice a ton of people conflating liberalism with Socialism without nary an understanding of either. That’s one huge problem that I’ve seen… An ignorance of economics to the point that people conflate a ton of positions to make it easier for them to dismiss. It’s actually quite ridiculous that the decades of propaganda continue to allow people to be blinded in trying to learn different positions of economy just so they can say X is something they don’t like.

  • luggage lad

    The War on Women narrative will die down after Hillary’s 2nd term and not a moment sooner..

  • Alex

    TechRaptor is like the best thing to come out of #gamergate also the great community around it!

  • Sirkay

    You either believe the narrative that is being put out there with curious unity, on TV, on Comedy shows, in movies and literature, in the media, and social media sites like Upworthy, or you don’t believe the narrative.

    It is this narrative that gives the SJW’s so much power, it is their bludgeon.

    Women are unjustly oppressed,
    racism is rampant,
    corporations are oppressors,
    economic inequality is unprecedented and unfair,
    the poor are victims, stuck and unable to help themselves.

    This is the narrative, and the narrative has one party, the blue party.
    There are those who adherre to it, and promote it and enable those who use it as a wrecking ball, the SJW’s.
    Notice how totally unrelated groups who support one of the tanets, will almost always support the other tanets. Because in the end, they’re not really feminists or what have you, they are agents of the narrative, unknowingly cooperating.

    A good example would be how feminism now automatically equals Anti-homophobia, and anti racism. I’m not making this up (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrBoeMF4FYs)

    Allow me to share some parallels here between the current state of affairs and a known list of communist goals:

    “DO AWAY WITH LOYALTY OATHS.”
    Remember how Steven Totillo was harping about how unreasonable it was to be loyal and adhere to Journalism Ethics and non-bias? To have honor?

    “CAPTURE ONE OR BOTH OF THE POLITICAL PARTIES IN THE US.”

    Only one party screams EAT THE RICH, and I guarantee you it isn’t the ‘pubs.

    “GET CONTROL OF THE SCHOOLS. USE THEM AS A TRANSMISSION BELT FOR SOCIALISM, AND CURRENT COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA. SOFTEN THE CURRICULUM. GET CONTROL OF THE TEACHERS ASSOCIATIONS. PUT THE PARTY LINE IN THE TEXTBOOKS.”

    As we’ve clearly seen with DIGRA and the rest, along with the fact that college students are several times more likely to identify as socialists or communists, this is unequivocally true.

    “INFILTRATE THE PRESS. GET CONTROL OF BOOK-REVIEW ASSIGNMENTS, EDITORIAL WRITING, POLICYMAKING POSITIONS.”

    After seeing the “Gamers are dead” articles, is there really any doubt at all, that these sites were trying to spin a narrative, and to condition their readers?

    “GAIN CONTROL OF KEY POSITIONS IN RADIO, TV, AND MOTION PICTURES.”

    Notice how most Hollywood celebrities are dyed in the wool lefties? Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, Bill Maher, David Letterman, Jimmy Fallon, all big lefties.

    “CONTINUE DISCREDITING AMERICAN CULTURE BY DEGRADING ALL FORMS OF ARTISTIC EXPRESSION. “ELIMINATE ALL GOOD SCULPTURE FROM PARKS AND BUILDINGS, SUBSTITUTE SHAPELESS, AWKWARD AND MEANINGLESS FORMS.”

    One only has to go to a SoCal art convention to see this in action. Or even better, look at the OFFICIAL Steve Jobs Bust in apple HQ: (http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/530cb52b6da811e009fadc51-768-1024/photo_2-13.jpg)

    “BREAK DOWN ALL CULTURAL STANDARDS OF MORALITY BY PROMOTING PORNOGRAPHY AND OBSCENITY IN BOOKS, MAGAZINES, MOTION PICTURES, RADIO, TV.”

    Consult any Tumblr blog decrying Heteronormativity.

    “PRESENT HOMOSEXUALITY, PROMISCUITY, AND DEGENERACY AS “NORMAL, NATURAL, HEALTHY.”

    Please consult the woes of those decrying “Cis Gendered Sexuality” and the growing popularity of being “Queer”
    “INFILTRATE THE CHURCHES AND REPLACE REVEALED RELIGION WITH “SOCIAL” RELIGION. DISCREDIT THE BIBLE AND EMPHASIZE THE NEED FOR INTELLECTUAL MATURITY WHICH DOES NOT NEED A ‘RELIGIOUS CRUTCH'”

    Consult Atheism+ And those who religiously follow the mythology of “Social Studies”

    “DISCREDIT THE AMERICAN FOUNDING FATHERS. PRESENT THEM AS SELFISH ARISTOCRATS WHO HAD NO CONCERN FOR THE COMMON MAN.”

    They were all Cis White Males anyway, and the fact that they were all men was patriarchal anyway!

    “BELITTLE ALL FORMS OF AMERICAN CULTURE, AND DISCOURAGE TEACHING OF AMERICAN HISTORY.”

    “American culture is an unjust patriarchy, ruled by Cis White men, where everyone is oppressed or repressed by Cis gendered lifestyles. Oh and american culture is racist too, they’re also greedy and ignorant!”
    ^^^^^All comes from the narrative^^^^^

    “DISCREDIT THE FAMILY AS AN INSTITUTION. ENCOURAGE PROMISCUITY, MASTURBATION AND EASY DIVORCE.”

    As we all know, Marriages are Patriarchal, restricting female sexuality is misogynistic, and being for stricter divorce laws is Anti-Woman.

    This is not a conspiracy, just widespread seduction. Take from this what you will.

  • Liberius

    The Left doesn’t really have a mainstream anymore, it’s been hijacked by extremists that want to push their morality down everyone else’s throats. It’s the same behavior they used to criticize the Religious Right for. They claim to be open-minded, but are quick to demonize every opinion that isn’t part of their canon, and even insufficient zeal for the cause is grounds for censure. Given the ability, they would codify their morality into law, just as the old Religious Right tried to.

    It’s not right no matter who does it, and if you want liberty these days, it’s on the side that’s saying that the government should never be so large, or so powerful as to be able to enforce a single faction’s morality from coast to coast. You won’t find people saying that on the Left.

  • Jay

    “True socialists don’t fight for democracy.”

    Nice “No True Socialist” fallacy…

    “They know that true individual economic freedom and political freedom are linked and socialism cannot function unless the state manages the economy.”

    How the hell do you know when you conflate different political positions and ignore history?

    “The Nazis didn’t exert total control over the economy.”

    You might want to look at how they used fear and propaganda to suggest otherwise, chief.

    “Rather they practiced an extended form of what is erroneously called “crony capitalism,” influencing business via political favors and punishing or dissolving businesses that didn’t play ball.”

    That’s the final stage of capitalism. As the contradictions of capitalism mount, it allows a small selection of people to control a majority of industry. It’s not a coincidence that Coca Cola was funding Germany through Fanta. You might want to read up on how they were the libertarians of their time, particularly with their moral values arguments.

    “All of this was done with the goal of unifying economic interests towards the purposes of the state.”

    And again, you ignore the Weimar Republic…

    ” A different flavor perhaps, not unlike the Chinese version of socialism, but socialism nonetheless”

    Look… Everyone keeps fighting about the state, that’s not the issue with Socialism. It’s true, that a certain form was about state control. The best it got was FDR’s New Deal and people went back to the drawing board and looked at economics to understand what was left out of capitalism. That’s namely the workers.

    Socialism was supposed to be about the workers having control of enterprise (corporations) and people have found this a much better solution. It’s already been tried. But what you’re talking about is considered state capitalism, not one tried for a major country. No, not even the USSR was considered to be Socialist because even Lenin (a year before his death) explained how the 1917 Revolution helped create state capitalism.

    “And the links between progressive ideology and fascism have been well documented (including a number of progressive figures who expressed admiration for Mussolini’s regime).”

    And the deaths of liberals are just as well documented when capitalism puts the crazy right wing in power…

  • cookipuss

    Oh, it wasn’t a misunderstanding. The hard left, marxist, shrieking harpies of the 3rd wave and their familiars want us to die. The more liberal people who wake up to the fact (I am one of them) that this social justice / feminism thing is and always was about hatred of men, especially white men, the better.

    Hopefully #notyourshield will also spur people of color to realize that these so called liberal allies of theirs do not have their interests at heart.

    #gamergate has woken people up and it’s good.

  • NCRelite

    If you don’t march lockstep with the Left they cast you aside.

  • Karmac

    I was not aware of Gamergate until now, but if it opens some eyes regarding the ad hominen attacks upon, and the villainization of, anyone who disagrees with liberal ideas and Politcal Correctness, then hopefully something positive ( besides the Republican landslide) will come of this. People should be able to hold a counter possition, without being made into a monster. Those from the 60s era who screamed the loudest for free speech, seem to have no problem silencing anyone whom disagrees with them now.

  • Brad

    This article echoes my sentiment. I did not, and truthfully could not vote the religion pandering, science denying far right into office.. but not voting is enough. Democrats need everyone to vote, otherwise Republicans win. And why would I continue to support a political party that hates me for my gender, race, and hobbies? That denies my humanity and my individuality on the hypocritical altar of 3rd wave hate group feminists.

    I have been a die hard, free speech, real equality liberal my whole life. Seeing the protesting, the activism, the fighting (sometimes literally) of the regressive right being thrown back in my face from people JUST AS BAD as the tea party breaks my heart.

  • Sirkay

    It’s clear then, we must institutionalize mandatory Charity. Start with the have’s and redistribute to the have-nots.

  • Liberius

    What the gaming press did to gamers is an old tactic that has been used succesfully by the mainstream press on other groups. Remember a particular group called the Tea Party a few years ago? Like gamers, the vast majority of them were reasonable people who just wanted to be left alone by the screaming SJW’s that want to push their morality and agenda down everyone’s throat. The best way to do that, it seemed, was to get the government back to a stricter interpretation of the Constitution, so that the powers that the SJWs were abusing to advance their agendas would no longer exist.

    There was a lot of passion, and it was a labor of love, people went to events dressed up as their favorite characters (a thing I’m sure no gamer has ever done), and the media had a field day. Suddenly these energetic political novices were branded as domestic terrorists without any cause, and demonized all across the media. Any stupid comment by a Republican was held against the Tea Party, even when it was from a mainstream candidate (see also, Todd Akin).

    Anything these people see as a threat to their agenda, they condemn and vilify with the power of mass media behind them. These people are now lying about you, why would you trust them about me? As a long-time member of the Tea Party, I invite you to have a look around and decide for yourselves. I don’t have to tell you how to think, because I’m pretty sure that when you look with open eyes, you’ll at least come away with a different point of view even if you don’t fully agree.

  • Jericho79

    I had an “Intro to cultural anthropology” which didn’t touch on any such things, in fact our studies never went much beyond 400AD in cultural analysis. We did touch on a few things that were modern like how the lack of good farmland affected a island based society and it’s practices and some info on a modern forager society still exists.

    I personally don’t give out direct locations to myself in open forums but I’m in the Pacific North West.

  • PancakeWizard

    A someone in the UK myself, I take issue with that assessment. Not sure where you’re getting all that from? I don’t doubt some have complained about the Halloween thing, but in Britain when shit like that happens, its largely ignored. We have laws against *hate speech* which is a very good thing indeed, IMO.

  • bazzar

    My advice to everyone that has moved to the Republicans but feel somewhat dirty about it is to get involved and help return it to it’s libertarian roots and away from the religious right.

    ” They will need every one of those days to convince me that my input into the liberal ideology is valued regardless of my hobbies, support for GamerGate, or my gender.”

    It isn’t. Check your privilege.

  • bazzar

    Like the “race baiting” (I use the term for lack of a better phrase) has died down thanks to Obama? If anything it will intensify due to the lack of total victory on the part of the progressives.

  • benjamin hardy

    im so glad to see the amount of comments on this, it shows techraptor is booming

  • There’s only one small problem with this well written opinion piece… You have the facts wrong. It’s easy enough to see if you start from the beginning, though. The 4chan chat logs from August 18-20 will show, beyond any doubt, that the origins of #GamerGate were specifically to harass, attack and threaten women and minorities. They even show how the “ethics in journalism” was started as a smoke screen to hide the real purpose. From there it exploded into a holey war, bringing out the crazies on both sides. But it’s not likely anyone supporting #GamerGate will ever do the real research needed to show all of this. So just put me down as a shill and ignore what I say. Dosen’t matter, really. Won’t change the truth. Might as well try and stop the sun from raising.

  • bazzar

    4chans /v/ had problems with gaming journalism long before anyone had heard of LW. Here’s a musical number from last year mocking journalists for their corruption.

    Making GG about LW is like making WW1 about Serb Nationalism, it was merely a spark that ignited a long awaited conflagration.

  • Nathan Clark

    That’s a fallacy. The USA’s origins involve killing Native Americans and British people. Do you use that fact against people when they comment about current issues in America?

    And, If you actually read the entire chat logs, you’d see that isn’t even really what happened.
    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/137293-Exclusive-Zoe-Quinn-Posts-Chat-Logs-Debunking-GamerGate-4Chan-and-Quinn-Respond

  • NCRelite

    So you’re saying gamer gate is about harassing minorities and women? Come on man that’s gotta sound stupid even to you!

  • Jay

    “The most “liberal” document in American history is the US Constitution.”

    That has to be the most asinine understanding of the Constitution I’ve seen. Firstly, Jefferson was one of the people to recognize that the Constitution needed to be changed with each new generation or else it would die. Second, Duverger’s Law and a more democratic form of parliament do more for the public than the 3/5th Clause and other “pernicious” aspects of the document that ensured slavery in different forms of it.

    ” People who piss on the Constitution are the same ones pushing the media narrative and frankly attacking dissenting voices in Gamergate.”

    No, not everyone has to wax poetic about the Constitution. I’ll recommend you look up the book “How Democratic is our Constitution” by Richard Dahl to see some criticisms of it.

    “This gentleman just realized who really believes in individual rights and who the real fascists are.”

    That’s really just subjective opinion and ignorant of neoclassical economics…

    “Rights to free speech, ownership of property, freedom to associate… these are our rights.”

    If you paid attention, corporate rights trump individual rights. Your rights end where a corporation begins. Thank the Constitution for that.

    “It is the Republicans today that are defending the US Constitution, not the Democrats just as it was Abe Lincoln who founded the Republican Party way back when and proceeded to run for the Presidency on an anti-slavery platform.”

    Uhhhmmmm… You might want to take a hard look at the Republican party. They’re still the insane party. Just because they have an R beside their name doesn’t make their policies any better.

  • laursaurus

    The Left-Wing “mainstream” media generated a vastly under-served market of viewers. Perfect opportunity for Fox News to give millions of Americans exactly what they’d been starved for. If you compare the cable news channel ratings, it’s astonishing how Fox has more viewers than the other news channels combined, then doubled.
    Look how the media paints gamers with same disdain they have for people who don’t march in lock-step with their political bias.
    The Tea Party was a grass-roots movement calling for a fiscally responsible government. But you probably consider them a bunch or racist zealots who hated the president for being black. Really? People had a legal, peaceful, and squeaky clean protests. But the Left wing media convinced you to despise these average Americans for their bigotry. Sound familiar?
    Compare that to the public health nuisance rife with criminal activity that Occupy Movement that was buried by the media. Not one freaking interviewer has confronted the which really didn’t have an agenda except to blame Wall Street for their maladjusted lifestyle.
    You’d think Brianna Wu’s transgender identity would come up in one of these interviews. It’s one thing to live your life as a woman. But claiming to be a “female developer” is a bald-faced lie. Not a female at all. Transwomen are not technically female. If it was relevant for Bradley Manning, it’s relevant to the agenda Wu is pushing about being oppressed as a “female developer” Zir words, not mine. .

  • Taquoshi

    Now you probably DO know how some of us feel, blarbl. On Sunday mornings, I used to listen to NPR’s Sunday Morning Baroque on the way to church, but stopped listening to them completely after they started making editorial comments about politicians during that broadcast.

    Our son is a gamer and has started writing game reviews. I’ve read some of the outright hateful comments targeted at him from the feminists and others involved in Gamergate. And they whine about how they’ve been threatened and bullied??? There were a couple of comments that made me consider contacting the authorities. And this is all over a GAME, people, not the national debt or capital punishment. What kind of “Social Justice” is it when someone write their opinion of a game and the opposing forces call down the wrath of God on his head because of “white male privilege”?

    Anyway, I hope those of us who are “boomers” will be civil enough to you so you eventually drop the phrase “stupid boomers” and start seeing us as individuals and potential friends rather than a class to be despised.

  • Monkey For A Peerage

    Hate speech is anything they say it is so its only a good thing untill they get around to saying your opinion is hate. Read the definition in the law and be affair. Universities are crawling with SJWs ready to throw any group off campus with their no platform for hate (again hate is what ever they say it is), look what hard a time Ukip students have from them. Or the NUS banning the blurred lines song.

    The same goes with racism (it is when ever someone thinks it is [see Stephen Lawrence inquiry] but don’t think that will apply to you if your white.

    Think SJW are not running a much then look up a group that is across government called “common purpose”, it is one big SJW insane asylum. Look at all the abuse Ukip get from the media for racism and sexism even though Ukip are clearly neither. Its the same rubbish they are suffering in the US.
    Also it is undeniable that the Police threatened people who wanted to talk about the rape of children because it would damage community cohesion (including the fathers of raped children). It looks like the final numbers for those rapes may be in the tens of thousands when all the UK is taken into account and this has been hidden because they fear the word racism. You may not have run into this stuff but neither had most gamers in the USA until it happened to them. I am also from the UK so its not like I do not know what I am talking about. Just look around and read the news (not the guardian or independent as they are the center of SJWdom on earth). SJW are increasingly pushy and using all the same old tactics gamers have wised up to http://jide-salu.com/2014/06/05/anger-over-pharrell-williams-controversial-native-american-headdress-covers-elle-uks-july-issue/

  • birdboy2000

    It is society, not nature, which creates a system where there are have nots Society which tells them they can’t make their own house, because they don’t own any land. Society which tells them they can’t hunt or grow their own food. Society which says if someone tries to take what they need to survive, they’re a thief and should be thrown in prison.

    These regulations on the whole are not terrible things – if everyone could hunt in an unlimited manner then food animals may go extinct, without clear delineation of plots it’s hard to farm even on a “take what you grew” basis, if you can’t set aside land for homes then how do you decide who builds what where? I certainly take issue with the hugely unequal distribution, but I’m not advocating for no property laws at all.

    Yet I acknowledge that it is not nature, but society’s laws which create the conditions of poverty, so it is society’s responsibility to alleviate it. It is not charity – charity is done by those who bear no blame for the conditions – but restitution.

  • Wavinator

    Feel the same way. Lifelong Democrat and I didn’t even vote. I’m feeling a very disturbing Matrix-like awakening after taking the red pill. I don’t think I’d ever be able to bring myself to vote conservative but I’m listening to the other side in a way I’ve never done before. I think I understand better the dangers of extremism on both sides of the political isle, which I suppose is helpful toward being an informed citizen.

  • Cain

    That’s not from Wikipedia. It’s actually taken from Encyclopedia Britannica; viewed by many as a credible source and general knowledge reference for over three centuries. Perhaps, instead of whingeing about the ignorance of others, you’d care to provide your definitions and help the good people at EB correct their embarrassingly erroneous entry and enlighten all of us in the process. Or better yet, just explain the core distinctions between a socialist and a state capitalist. For a benighted individual like me, those two appear to be essentially identical splatters from the same steaming load of horse shit.

  • Antoby

    Good on you for recognizing a fault in your party as many these days are too thickheaded to even do that.. Democrats would do well to try to rid heir party of that growing, toxic influence and they would instantly become very appealing again.

  • PancakeWizard

    the law is not anything they say it is, because its written down what it is. And of course the unis are crawling with SJWs -its university! Students are the following 1)drunk 2)oversexed 3)uninformed 4)think they’ve solved all the world’s problems.

    That doesn’t worry me. Students grow up, and studies have shown they generally become more conservative when they do.

    You’re right about the police, and the fact its being condemned and talked about *at all* is why you’re wrong implying its systemic for the country as a whole.

    UKIP are a fucking joke, btw. I agree with leaving the EU, but yeah they are idiots. TTIP is far more dangerous an issue than immigration, and that’s what my vote will be going against. UKIP were a useful tool for Con voters to get Con to be more Con. Now that’s the case, there’s no real reason to get them in government unless you want to be embarrassed on the global stage on a daily basis.

    Anyway, better stop now as this isn’t the place for UK politics.

  • Chris

    I am also white, male, gamer, techie, liberal (in classic left-liberal/libertarian sense) and in no way felt targeted by the media attention given to gamergate. The negative attention was pointed at a very small hateful minority, not the rest of us that simply want to see honest reporting in our media.

  • ScewMadd

    If anything, I have learned to stop being so critical of the right. I may not agree with their policies in a lot of cases, but I won’t be taking the wanton smear campaigns against them at face value anymore.

    The left-leaning media has always tried to paint the right as dangerous, and not to be engaged with. Well, now I will engage. I will listen, even if I disagree. The liars have shown us their tools for spinning and creating narratives, so now we will recognise them in action better.

  • wcg

    I have to wonder if you’ve seen any other part of the world? American politics are considerably more right than many European countries’ leading parties. Not counting recent times but even the Conservative Party of Canada would be considered left of the Democrats.

  • SemperCogitens

    If it’s any consolation, NPR’s pundits couldn’t figure out why there was any opposition to immigration reform either. They literally asked that question outload and all three of their pundits responded with *crickets*. Anyone who’s listened to the Tea Party for 10 minutes over the last two years knows the opposition is based on a demand for universal and equal enforcement of the law. The law is being broken and the people who are supposed to be enforcing it are not. That’s the opposition, but NPR can’t see it as an issue about the rule of law.

    Yellow journalism dominates the MSM. Whether it’s the left-leaning, or the right-leaning, any single source you listen to is biased. They present a limited set of facts that steers viewers/readers toward a particular conclusion. Sure, it’s all true, but it’s truth in the absence of it’s total context, and that leads to false conclusions. It’s manipulative and wrong. I’d argue the left is far more aggressive about it, but they’d be quick (and correct) to counter with Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Mark Levin, etc. The problem is the tactic and the tactic is employed by all successful shapers of public opinion.

    People are absolutely right to demand better.

  • Pretty much the same for me. Before Gamergate, I’d automatically discount anything coming from a website that was even remotely right. That’s how brainwashed I was, but I have no shame in admitting it because Gamergate made me realise that while personally I’ll always stay a “leftie” (high on personal freedoms, accepting some government regulation), the left media is not my friend and they have their own agendas to push.

  • Monkey For A Peerage

    Hate speech laws in the United Kingdom Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 “(1) A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress, he— (a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or (b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting, thereby causing that or another person harassment, alarm or distress.”

    The key words are alarm or distress. Anything you say could be considered insulting to the point it causes alarm and distress. If you have ever met a SJW you will know they are highly capable of pretending to be both alarmed and distressed if they see an advantage in it. As for the child rape it was across the nation and has only just started being talked about although it goes back years. People did not look into it for fear of being called racist Labour politician Denis MacShane is on record as saying that as a ‘true Guardian reader’ he did not want to ‘rock the multi-cultural boat’ and investigate. This went on for years, they knew about it and they hid it. The official report even says that.
    You do not have to support Ukip or its policies to agree that they should not be called racist/homophob/sexists in the media 24/7.
    UK or not the point stands. The tactics of deceitful corrupt journalism and lies used by the SJW is universal and they will go as far as to cover up the rape of thousands of children if it suits their agenda. That is the type of people they are. Its not just gaming journalism corruption it is a deeper corruption. I agree the TTIP is a threat but it is all linked and all part of a vast scam to cheat us and control us.

  • Jay

    “That’s not from Wikipedia. It’s actually taken from Encyclopedia Britannica; viewed by many as a credible source and general knowledge reference for over three centuries.”

    You’re arguing a semantics battle here. The point is that a “textbook definition” doesn’t make for a defining aspect of economics. That’s like me going to the definition of feminism and using this to say how you’re a feminist. It’s disingenuous at best and a popularity fallacy. Instead of actually looking at what’s going on with Socialism (which is an argument in itself), it’s a way to dismiss arguments over a shallow definition.

    ” Perhaps, instead of whingeing about the ignorance of others–”

    That would be “whining” and if you actually paid attention, I explained just a bit about what you could research to better understand why liberalism isn’t Socialism.

    “– you’d care to provide your definitions”

    Which I did by telling you that in economic terms, Socialism is used to explain how the workers control the factories as well as operate their own enterprises. Capitalism is an economic system that has been around for ~300 years in America and has to do with the relationship of employer and employee. Based on this, the employer finds ways to demand more from their workers while paying them less. This has an effect on society in the income disparity that we see of people being paid $10.50 an hour versus $10,500 an hour.

    “help the good people at EB correct their embarrassingly erroneous entry”

    It’s outdated. That’s the problem. No need to act so flippant when a dictionary is out of date. It just means you have to seek better sources like economists that understand economic theories. That IS kind of their job, ya know…

    “Or better yet, just explain the core distinctions between a socialist and a state capitalist.”

    As I said before, Socialism is an economic way of workers owning the enterprise. But since the 1930s, there’s been a lot of people confusing the state capitalism (government regulates markets) with “Socialism”

    A good example of something that would be Socialist would be a co-op where the workers have investment in the company and decide what to do with the net profits.

    A good example of a capitalist company is McDonalds, Wal-Mart… You name it.

    The point is that in one, the workers regulate themselves.

    The other, the government or the shareholders are the main way to regulate the company.

    Guess which one has a better track record in regulation?

    What conservatives fight and advocate for is private capitalism, which allows a number of companies to regulate themselves via shareholders. But look at 2007 and the elimination of Glass Steagall in 1999 for why that is a bad idea.

    What liberals (mainly) want is to provide laissez-faire capitalism or advocate for the state capitalism which gave them the New Deal. This misunderstands history though as the only reason FDR became progressive was because he was PUSHED by unions, Socialists, and Communists to do something during the Great Depression. If you want to read about that, you can look into the Pecora Commission or look up the book, “The Lords of Creation” which is in the Forbidden Bookshelf.

    Socialists are similar reformers with a different goal entirely. Some believe you can eliminate the capitalist system through reforming it out of existence. The Communists (Libertarian Socialists/Anarchists in most regards) are more willing to fight outside the system to remove it.

    In essence, capitalism is a type of economic system that has people that fight FOR it and against it, just like slavery was a system that had people advocating for it and against it.

    You have to be able to hear all sides of an argument and for Socialists in America, they have been targeted for destruction since McCarthyism was implemented. That’s why the propaganda of libertarianism and neoliberal partisans is so attractive but ultimately, they’re hollow because they advocate more for markets than they do anything else.

    Finally, I’d recommend listening to a few left wing economists from Noam Chomsky to Richard D Wolff. My personal fave is Wolff while I do listen to liberals like Thom Hartmann.

    http://truth-out.org/news/item/26740-economic-update-why-economics-is-poorly-understood

    You’ll get more out of that than you will a definition that isn’t really used anymore and maybe you’ll come to a different conclusion. The choice is yours.

  • J.j. Cintia

    The idea that a government can take any and all of your money without your consent conforms to any possible definition of freedom is just stupid. They can claim its for education, but most of these graduates are functionally illiterate and only a small fraction goes to schools to pay teachers and the lion’s share goes to pay for their lifestyles of The Rich and Famous. SUCKER!

  • Jay

    “The idea that a government can take any and all of your money without your consent conforms to any possible definition of freedom is just stupid.”

    Good thing I didn’t say that and it shows that you’ve completely missed how poor your understanding of economics is.

    ” They can claim its for education, but most of these graduates are functionally illiterate and only a small fraction goes to schools to pay teachers and the lion’s share goes to pay for their lifestyles of The Rich and Famous.”

    You might want to look up “austerity” and get back to me… You have no idea what you’re talking about.

  • EscapeVelocity

    Once you go Shitord, you never go back. Welcome to the Dark Side.

    May I recommend some political conversion reading.

    David Mamet – The Secret Knowledge

    http://www.villagevoice.com/2008-03-11/news/why-i-am-no-longer-a-brain-dead-liberal/

    David Horowitz – Left Illusions: An Intellectual Odyssey

    He also writes about his political converstion online.

    Ronald Radosh – Commies: A Journey Through the Old Left, the New Left, and the Leftover Left.

    He also writes for PJMedia prolifically including about his political conversion

  • awm48

    You’re right, they aren’t Socialists, they’re Fascists.

    https://www.marxists.org/archive/pannekoe/1936/dictatorship.htm

  • AeluronLightsong

    Getting Gawker down will be a big boon to the States,UK and the world as a whole. In a way Gamergate did a bit more then some activists could.

  • karmashock

    First, let me clue you into something conservatives have been saying for years:

    “A conservative is just a liberal that’s been mugged.”

    You just got mugged. Welcome to the club.

    As to identity politics, the left is addicted to identity politics. I saw Bill Maher do a show after the election and despite the fact that the republicans elected a black woman to office, he still tried to use that specific election to claim the republicans are racists.

    They did the same thing with the whole “war on women” campaign which is what gamergate became a part of.

    And that is all gamergate is to the larger political battle. The whole thing was a proxy war for the national war on women campaign which is why we got support from the right and attacks from the left. Neither side really cares about us. We were just a place they could carry on their endless pissing contests. And most of this war on women thing was a testing of the waters for hillary. As I said, they are addicted to identity politics. She is a women. When she runs everyone that opposes her for any reason will be declared a woman hater and a bigot. They are testing to see how well that works. And if it doesn’t, they’ll find some other identity they can use.

    With the collapse of that strategy nationally and the failures in the gamergate issue… hillary is looking weak. She’s probably going to get stiff competition from some other democrat that smells blood in the water.

    Regardless, the left won’t stop with the identity politics. 90 percent of their arguments are ad hominem. They do have some points but you can’t discuss them or question them because the instant you try you’re a bigot or an idiot.

    This whole gamer gate thing is what conservatives have been dealing with in the US for decades. It is why they created alternative media in the first place. Whether you agree with them or not, they were not able to have a conversation or be heard.

    It is sad that the gaming world is becoming political. I wish it weren’t. But we didn’t start this crap.

  • awm48

    Most people are knowledgeable about at least one thing, and when they find an erroneous article about it in the press they shake their heads, then turn the page and believe what’s written about other subjects as though the author knows more about that subject than they did the other.

  • PancakeWizard

    re: hate speech, it still has to be an official arrest and go to court., its not as clear as being banged up for hurting someone’s feelings. You’re missing out a whole judicial system there that keeps it in check. Have you got any cases to cite where this has been abused and not overturned?

    re: UKIP and media bias: its a different issue because general printed media in the UK has *always* been partisan/bias. They all have political leanings. You notice that media bias didn’t stop UKIP getting their first MP, or getting most MEPs? (incidentally, i voted lib-dems in last general election, UKIP for Euro-elections, and ill be voting Green for next UK general. Work that one out!)

    With the gaming media, its different because its a consumer media and therefore supposed to be outside of politics. Its hobbyist and escapism (for gamers, not just anyone who picks up a game, but gaming media are aimed at gamers whether they care to admit that or not), we naturally balk at the idea of politics injected into that coverage. Note: we don’t balk at the idea of it injected into *games* because developers have the right to make the game they wish, just as we have to right to buy/not buy on our personal preference.

    The gaming media seem to have gotten the idea that they are our moral guidance, when we look to them for unbiased critical analysis. A reviewer can be as gonzo and subjective as they like – as long as they tell us about the game, and don’t score it based on their personal ideologies or preferences.

    This IMO, is why ‘hard’ numerical scores need to go. There are a myriad of ways you can score a game without something metacritic can use and some poor low-level programmer loses his job. Ironically, as much as hate them right now: RPS and Kotaku have good review systems. They can be aped, or you can use a ‘certificate’ system (genre classic, reviewer recommended, Gold [for the previous two combined], or unbuyable turd). I’m sure there are more.

    Without scores aggregate sites can use, reviewers can spout whatever political bullshit they want, but they ultimately have to come down on a clearer ‘buyers guide’ position, and gamers will simply go to the sites they like best instead of having the rug pulled out from under them after years of community curation.

    Using Bayonetta 2 as an example: If they’d been using Kotaku’s scoring system they would’ve had to conclude ‘Buy it’, despite the reviewer’s misgivings. Crisis averted.

  • David Gray

    I for one am glad to see Bill Clinton called this out independently.
    I cant even say I’m sorry the Dem’s lost.
    They need a wakeup call, and that wakeup call is to abandon identity politics and embrace liberal POLICY. (I’d prefer left wing policy, but I’m a Brit, so ALL of America is massively right wing to me)

    The difference between a moderate Republican and a Democrat of ANY stripe is that the former is honest. The outcome of their leadership is likely the same.
    For the life of me I cant see the value in the Dem’s as they don’t DO anything except adopt old Republican ideas to reach a compromise and continually get their arse handed to them legislatively even when they have majorities.

    This could be a wakeup call that the lunatic fringe of misandrists and ideologues is driving MOST liberals away.
    I live in hope the message is received across the pond, even though our politics remain a fiasco. (though a more fun and democratic fiasco imo)

  • Miguel Leiva-Gomez

    Welcome to the dark side, Todd. Glad to have you with us, and I’m proud to be your colleague. I’ve got your back, even if later on you decide to reassess your position. That is the difference between us and SJWs. We stick up for our own kind even when they leave. The SJWs on the other hand vilify and hack at those who leave their camp.

    As an example, I have had lots of gay friends who distanced themselves from SJWs only to get harassment and have all their secrets out in the open, even the ones that they thought would convince me to rethink our friendship. When they caved into the SJWs and then left me behind, I was there to welcome them back years later.

  • kungpowsalmon2

    So perhaps there may some day be hope for real compromise after all, the way compromise was intended to work between our two major parties. Your viewpoint is refreshing if anything.

    I have always been courteous and respectful of those that do not agree with my conservative perspective, and I’m always willing to hear someone out. But it’s not always easy when a media sympathetic to the ideals of one side and hostile toward the other goes to great lengths not only to make sure our voices are not heard, they go the extra mile and generate smear campaigns not unlike the kind that attempted to shame and silence those who would call themselves gamers. We’ve been dealing with it for years now.

    The media deserves what it gets for being a dishonest institution and for pitting Americans against each other the way they do.

  • coboney

    In a lot of ways, Gawker is peripheral to GG as a whole beyond some stupid Biddle and Max comments. I view it more as a community service that GG is doing for everyone to take them down

  • AeluronLightsong

    I voted for who I thought was best that and minimum wage stuff. UNFORTUNATELY BRUCE RAUNER or whatever won. -_-

    Sad state for Illinois. Bloody hell.

  • David Gray

    We have problems with the political power of insane feminists (Harriet Harmon) but the difference is the general public DESPISE these people. There’s a reason she wasn’t picked for leadership and Milliband was selected despite his inexperience.
    I’m mostly sad because my initial hope of a redemption for labour turned sour VERY quickly.

    The BBC has reported on gamergate and followed the SJW narrative (only on the radio) and previously Newsnight covered “online harassment” (Sarkeesian) which was nothing more than propaganda and “soggy knees” (it did feature Rod Liddle spitting some truth, but the interviewer was openly hostile to him. The feminist that claimed “men are raised to hate women” however was totally cool and faced ZERO cross examination)

    There are some crazy ass SJW politics on the continent too.
    I think the difference is simply the public reaction. Outside of college girls I’ve never met a feminist, and in private people tend to roll their eyes and apologise for the crazy.

    Sweden is straight up insane though, drinking the coolaid and accepting radfem bullshit. It’s not all bad tbf, and they are mostly chill.

    Basically, there’s a reason we’re not gonna have a majority government any time soon.
    People dont LIKE conservative politics (whatever conservatives claim :P) but they are openly disgusted with the opposition that is no different AND comes with insane identity politics (though not as overt)

  • David Gray

    I see too many right wing/libertarians DESPERATELY trying to make this all political.
    Yeah, the “left wing” (that term applied to America makes me laugh) is fucked up.
    So is the right, get over yourselves!
    The left are being caught doing shit the right has done for 30 years, and suddenly its as if they’re angels.
    The defense of the tea party is the most galling.
    Yeah, there were some great people involved in the tea party. Real patriots that wanted what was best for the USA.
    There were also nutters. Running for office. And getting wide support from the base.
    There was also astroturfing.

    People need to remove the stick out of their arse and quit thinking their own shit has stopped stinking.
    Hell, most libertarians and right wingers don;t even know or acknowledge the origins of left/right.
    The left was born, defined and build upon anti authoritarian values. That was the VERY FUCKING POINT OF IT.
    It is VERY annoying when the right suggest that “authority” is a left wing thing, when it was LITERAL the point of the right AND STILL IS.
    The difference is simply who the right wing want to be in charge…

    If there WERE a genuine left wing/liberal alternative, it would be getting the votes. Don’t doubt it.

    Now, we should put politics aside except to hold both sides accountable for their shit.
    Both sides do it, and I’m glad the Dem’s got a wakeup call. I hope it works.
    gamergate aint political.
    It is apolitical.
    Quit making hay for #teamRed

  • Hajjster

    I used to be a liberal, too. Eventually I noticed that a lot of them are absolutely selfish hypocrites that talk about poverty and rights to assuage their own sense of guilt. What capped it off was getting married and having a family – I have my own little kingdom of a family, and I have to take care of them on my own. So does everyone else.

    I became a conservative.

  • Hal Jalikakik

    Though it was far from the only reason, GamerGate was the last straw for me, too. It forced me to confront what I’d been avoiding for the later half of my 20’s… that the modern left really is insane, especially with regards to all things “social justice”.

    So, in the third midterm election in which I’ve been an eligible voter, I voted Republican for the first time ever. Sure, there are a lot of things to dislike about individual Republican platforms and candidates, but none of them are trying to burn the world down.

    Unlike you, though, I feel cleansed, motivated, and purposeful going forward. I was blind but now I see.

  • Hal Jalikakik

    And just look at what’s going on in Sweden now.

  • AeluronLightsong

    All I can say is. If you were raised right and to be moral. You’ll know what’s right. Yeah subjectivity but it’s not as hard as some may think. Also Good job on Techraptor for being honorable in this. This is why I go here.

  • What’s interesting to me is the confusion over the term “Liberal”. This term has been hijacked by the American Progressive Left and it’s meaning changed to infer the opposite of Liberty.

    Thomas Jefferson’s “Classical Liberal” proposed more personal Liberty, hence smaller government and more personal responsibility. Progressives (read Communists) use class-warfare, identity politics and the like to divide and conquer, swooping in as big brother to “protect” all the supposed disenfranchised groups.

    It’s a telling concept, that anytime someone is trying to “protect” something, it actually means limiting someone elses liberty.

    Truth be told, if we all stop playing the Republican/Democrat game and start framing the argument as a Big-Government Power-grabbing Progressives vs. Liberty & Freedom loving “Classical Liberals”, the sooner we will find that we have a lot more in common, than not.

  • FranklinWasRight

    The left has been hijacked by authoritarians, control is their aim. Whether it’s the amount of sugar you ingest, how much water you use, what kind of language you use, or what hobbies you choose, they judge everything and use shame to try and control people when they can’t legislate control.

  • FranklinWasRight

    The rhetoric used by the Democratic Party the last 6 years has done more to conflate liberalism with socialism than anything else. Their embrace of the openly Marxist Occupy movement alone is enough to tip off intelligent observers as to where their allegiances truly lie.

    If you don’t like this, please start a grass roots movement to support capitalism among the left. I would love it if “blue dog democrats” would make a resurrgence, they’ve been marginalized.

  • FranklinWasRight

    I’m related to many leftists, they are all socialists and all believe that censorship and language controls are a good thing.

  • FranklinWasRight

    Everything is political to the left. The right is simply reacting and finally trying to beat them at their own game. It was the left who politicized gaming, the libertarians/conservatives are simply pointing it out and calling bull shit, something they weren’t able to do with as much force before alternative internet based media made it possible to fight back against the well coordinated, corporate mainstream media agenda.

    Gamergate is the same tactics the media complex and totalitarian statists have used against many other groups who disagree with their version of orthodoxy. They just happened to misunderstand gamers, they thought gamers are mostly misogynistic and socially inept. The media deals in stereotypes, and that is the one they chose to employ as they bully gamers into submission to the agenda. Thank God gamers are smart and most are well educated, they have managed to wake up a whole new group of people who are now aware of their tactics and will now be able see through their “narratives.”

  • flight2q

    Over 3 decades of voting and this was the first time I voted for 0 Dem candidates. GamerGate was just a small part of a poisonous narrative (ItsOnUs, HeForShe, etc.) that Dems have pursued for years & ramped up for this election.

  • flight2q

    They even try/do fire people based on their fetishes now (see Jian Ghomeshi). They outright stole that from the religious right!

  • David Gray

    Except half of what you say is self serving political rhetoric IDENTICAL to the thing you say you hate.
    You conflate the left with statism. That is DEMONSTRABLY bullshit.
    The right wing was established ENTIRELY to serve the state (at the time the monarchy)
    Right wing politics is BY ITS VERY NATURE authoritarian and statist.
    The left wing was established as a reaction, a movement for progress. It was born to fight the state.
    Libertarians have taken this, and that’s GREAT, but the least you fuckwits could do is acknowledge ACTUAL fucking history and not repeat your revisionist dogma.
    It pisses me off so much because you are EXACTLY the same as the fuckwits I’m trying to fight within “liberal” circles.
    You just think you’re different because you’re on team red instead of team blue.

  • Cain

    “You’re arguing a semantics battle here.”

    Well, yes. You began the current exchange with semantics – “These people aren’t Socialists.” – You intended to argue semantics with your post, did you not?

    “The point is that a “textbook definition” doesn’t make for a defining aspect of economics.”

    Ummm wow… No, actually that’s exactly what a “textbook definition” makes for; defining something. I have to ask, when you’re forming a completely incoherent thought like that, are you destroying basic logic intentionally or are you completely unaware of it happening? If someone said to you, “The point is that just because something is a fact, doesn’t make it factual” would you agree with them? Hint: You should not agree with that because both your statement and that one are equally stupid.

    “That’s like me going to the definition of feminism and using this to say how you’re a feminist. It’s disingenuous at best and a popularity fallacy. Instead of actually looking at what’s going on with Socialism (which is an argument in itself), it’s a way to dismiss arguments over a shallow definition.”

    Look, I’m ok with responding to sophistry, but that mess of words doesn’t even rise to that pathetic level. I hope you’re not too offended if I don’t bother addressing gibberish like this. It’s not worthy anybody’s time.

    “”Perhaps, instead of whingeing about the ignorance of others–” That would be “whining””

    Oh boy… I assume you mean well, but no, the word is whingeing, exactly as I wrote it. But thank you for the gesture, I guess. I had assumed you weren’t that provincial, but I was mistaken. You are. You see, there are some people in the world, beyond the county-line of your home, where English words you may not be aware of are commonly used. It’s not your fault. I do highly recommend you explore more of the world if you ever have the opportunity. BTW – if you were to use the internet to find the word “whinge” you will probably be able to find a definition of the word. And, at the risk of beating a dead horse, that definition will actually define the word for you.

    “… and if you actually paid attention, I explained just a bit about what you could research to better understand why liberalism isn’t Socialism.”

    You did? When? In what context? Are you having imaginary conversations with me? Any actual explanation from you about anything would be so awesome, and new. I’ve been waiting for just that from you but no luck so far. Are you considering providing an explanation soon? Can you explain things? Don’t tease me now. And who said anything about liberalism? Did you hear me say that? Look, if you were to tell me that you’re currently running a fever of 104, that would pretty much explain this entire thread and I would then suggest you forget about the internet for awhile and get some rest; or even head to the emergency for help. Please tell me you’re running a fever.

    “”– you’d care to provide your definitions” – Which I did by telling you that in economic terms, Socialism is used to explain how the workers control the factories as well as operate their own enterprises. Capitalism is an economic system that has been around for ~300 years in America and has to do with the relationship of employer and employee. Based on this, the employer finds ways to demand more from their workers while paying them less. This has an effect on society in the income disparity that we see of people being paid $10.50 an hour versus $10,500 an hour.”

    Damn, where was I when you were dropping all this fascinating knowledge on me? Are you a time traveler? Have you been to my future? That would be so wicked. Am I still as smoking hot in the future as I am today? I hope so.

    “”help the good people at EB correct their embarrassingly erroneous entry” – It’s outdated. That’s the problem.”

    They will be so crushed to hear it; the poor rubes.

    “No need to act so flippant when a dictionary is out of date.”

    Clueless stuff just seems to bring out the flip in me I guess. Apologies.

    “It just means you have to seek better sources like economists that understand economic theories. That IS kind of their job, ya know…”

    Of course. Why the fuck didn’t the encyclopedia people think of that?!! What are they, morons?

    “As I said before, Socialism is an economic way of workers owning the enterprise. But since the 1930s, there’s been a lot of people confusing the state capitalism (government regulates markets) with “Socialism””

    Oh shoot, more of that gibberish I mentioned before.

    “A good example of something that would be Socialist would be a co-op where the workers have investment in the company and decide what to do with the net profits.”

    Uh, …. more gibberish.

    “A good example of a capitalist company is McDonalds, Wal-Mart… You name it.”

    I don’t have to now. You just named ’em both. Thanks dude!

    “The point is that in one, the workers regulate themselves.”

    Which, McDonalds or Wal-Mart?

    “The other, the government or the shareholders are the main way to regulate the company.”

    Oh no, guess what? Yep, again with the gibberish.

    “Guess which one has a better track record in regulation?”

    I don’t know, is it the one with the thing… and the workers… and hearts filled with cotton candy and fairy dust?

    “What conservatives fight and advocate for is private capitalism”

    Most of us just refer to it as the free market. I probably shouldn’t distract you with semantics though. I’ve learned where that leads the hard way.

    I had to skip a ton of other stuff you wrote mainly because it was so bad it was an insult to gibberish. How do you do it!

    “Finally, I’d recommend listening to a few left wing economists from Noam Chomsky”

    Why would I listen to a linguist (who you call an economist for some reason) to learn about economics? Oh wait, I nearly forgot how you and logic, and reason, and definitions and other scary stuff are not acquainted.

    “You’ll get more out of that than you will a definition that isn’t really used anymore and maybe you’ll come to a different conclusion.”

    That could easily be the opening sentence to George Orwell’s book “1984”. Do you read books? Read that one.

    “The choice is yours.”

    Not if the Socialists get their way. Look, this has been a load of fun but I need to go outside now and converse with something a bit more cerebral like ground squirrels or a box of rocks.

  • flight2q

    They are Stalinists. We need a Khrushchev to appear on the left; then at least they won’t be attacking the arts so much.

  • Grifte

    I’m from a small Wisconsin town myself, and since my first time voting two years ago in the presidential election, I’ve decided liberalism has become just as bad as the conservatism they demonize.

    So I voted libertarian then, and I voted for the libertarian governor on Tuesday (along with several others in different positions). Unfortunately, they did about as bad both times (not a fan of Walker, honestly).

    People say the two party system is the most ideal, that it keeps the other in check by not allowing a third party to get cozy with one side or the other and dominate through backdoor deals. But I say that’s already happening with just the two sides and…

    Right now, I think it’s going to take someone who hasn’t become drunk on power to take it away from those who have.

    “…absolute power corrupts absolutely”

    I think it’s time for a purification. I’m possibly assigning it too much significance, but GG may be the start of it.

  • Condorito Jones

    Long time liberal. Now I’m seriously thinking about it. The progressive left looks insane from the outside in. It’s almost like a cult.

  • Spunky McGoo

    Wlecome to the republican party; We have cookies.

  • Condorito Jones

    Here you go, another one:

    I don’t blame you. Before all this I also believed 4chan to be the boogeyman of the internet. Easy truths are never true.

  • Olympion

    The Yes means Yes law proposals are far more toxic, in practice they’d bring the government into the bedroom and do away with the presumption of innocence for sexually active men.

  • EscapeVelocity

    You might find this article interesting as well. Starts off kind of out there, but stick with it.

    Open Civil Society & Kulturkampf: Why Im Pro #GamerGate

    http://www.popehat.com/2014/10/21/gamer-gate-three-stages-to-obit/

  • ash

    NO Hate speech laws is NOT a good thing. Who decides what is so called “Hate speech” and what it isn’t? These types of laws represents what is wrong with far left government..

  • Doctor Mayhem

    I love watching British Parliament debates. I noticed something about Brit society, your politics are full of name-calling, ranting, and general unpleasantness.

    Your personal interactions tend towards pleasant and civilized, with loads of dry wit and calling people “cunts”. Please don’t ever quit with your political fiasco.

    Of course, my experience is with British military members. Everyone is a cunt to them. They are fun people.

  • Doctor Mayhem

    Say what you will about the Tea Party, but if a government run by those “nutjobs” actually was run by Tea Party “nutjob” beliefs, then it would be too small and ineffective to police your thoughts.

  • Doctor Mayhem

    It may not have died down (In fact, the race pimps have doubled down on it. Think of it like an economic bubble), but people are taking it less and less seriously. Every cry of racism is getting less effective.

  • MrSnuggles2k2

    You must be one of those leftists that would revulse in horror at the realization that someone they knew personally was a republican. How could it be? Ive never heard them use the N word, wear a white hood, rape a woman, they obviously arent rich, and by God they are actually good people.

    The leftist media has sold an unreal caricature of what a republican is, when in reality it is almost entirely the opposite of the truth.

    The reality is, the leftists you have let brainwash you are sick, twisted, immoral freaks willing to literally destroy peoples lives for standing in the way of them achieving unlimited power. They are exactly the caricature they presented people like me as. It is just unfortunate that people like you had to experience their hatred first handd to realize it.

    I dont blame you, i truly believe most liberal people are genuinely good, moral, hardworking people that unfortunately have been caught up in a massive set of lies.

  • Winston

    It is a common tale of being mugged by reality. Contemporary Leftism is just fascism. The typical “liberal” refuses to recognize the reasonableness of any view other than their own, is bigoted, historically illiterate, and uses frivolous accusations of racism/sexism/homophobia in an attempt to coerce conformity. The sheer pettiness and self-righteousness of it is extraordinary. It is virtually dehumanizing. It is just a matter of deciding that enough is enough and that you do not want to go through life like a humorless, intolerant, paranoid, mean-spirited piece of human dreck, that there is more to life than self-obsessed identity politics and demonizing others. If everyone who dares to disagree with you just must be a “bigot”, even latently or in terms of some amorphous “microaggression” or some other nonsense, the problem is your own.

  • Nick

    Republicans do the same thing when trying to build propaganda on how ‘evil games are destroying the youths’ So.. I’m not sure that ANY media is void of this quality. Seriously.. go look at the things that the right media has said about games and linkage to violence, etc. Also go take a look on what stances the right takes concerning the internet in most circumstances.. it’s kind of silly.

  • Dehydration

    There’s a rising distaste for the left, really. So many things the far, authoritarian left say just don’t make common sense while being perfectly allowed, no, encouraged by many because of political correctness and its original nature of ‘being nice to one another’, which you really can’t and don’t want to argue about. I mean, Common Core. Body positivity which relies on SHAMING fit people.

    The greatest enemy of the left are the left.

  • PancakeWizard

    please don’t project your US ideals onto me.. laws on hate speech have proved their worth more than once here in Britain for many years, with many different governments left or right. Here’s the gist btw: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_the_United_Kingdom

    I much prefer that than people being allowed to make public racist or homophobic protests/slogans.

  • PancakeWizard

    FYI ‘insulting’ was scratched off in 2013.

  • Snakes on a Car

    The brutal reality is that the USA is a two party country because we have a first past the post election system. People that really want to change things need to get active in the primary elections for the party they hate the least.

  • Snakes on a Car

    Deny Science? Talk to a progressive about race and IQ. Or biological differences between the sexes to a feminist. Liberal Creationism is the religion of the establishment.

    Shit ask a leftist that is concerned about global warming how are we going to reduce C02 without nuclear power or population control efforts in third world countries.

  • EscapeVelocity

    Khrushchev was little better than Stalin. Get real.

  • EscapeVelocity

    @DavidGray

    The Right are Classical Liberals (formerly known as on the Left). The Western Left is Social Democrat a wing of Marxism that sought slow evolution to Communist State. The New Left is all about Cultural Marxism to speed up the process.

    Global Warming is about Fascist control of Energy production via heavy govt regulation. Which is absolute control of the economy.

    You have been sold a load of bull shit. I know it sucks to realize you are standing in a pile of Totalitarian Shit, when youve been told over and over again that you are fighting against the Fascist Classical Liberals. Small Govt, less regulation, Federalism(govt closer to the people) Constitutional restriction of Federal Govt. and Free Markets are not Totalitarianism. They are Liberty.

    I recommend these books to advance your understanding.

    Ron Radosh – Commies: Journey Through the Old Left, the New Left, and the Leftover Left

    David Horowitz – Left Illusions: An Intellectual Journey

    Nick Cohen – What’s Left? How Liberals Lost Their Way

  • EscapeVelocity

    Id also recommend

    Nick Cohen – What’s Left? How Liberals Lost Their Way

  • Brad

    The potential for intelligence is the same across the board, it depends on education first, genes a distant, distant second. Third wave feminists are the problem here so what is the point of saying something I had already touched upon?

    I don’t know, nor care what you mean by Liberal Creationism. That, I suppose, is the conservative version of the buzzwords I see bandied about on tumblr by these SJW hypocrites because they lack the vernacular to speak the language without making shit up.

    As for asking a leftist.. I fucking am a leftist. There is more than enough room to improve in renewables to make up for nuclear and still wean ourselves off of coal and oil. Wind, solar, hydro, even exotics like ethanol produced on algae farms. We could expand into those fields and be world leaders still.

    If you want to have a discussion thats cool, but you have to make sense. The shit you just said sounds like it came from the mouth of a camo clad militiaman in a bunker 30 feet below Arkansas.

    Just because I am disillusioned with the extremist wackos which are coopting the values I have stood for doesn’t mean that I am going to flip around ans go full Hannity.

  • EscapeVelocity

    Im a Tea Partier and also Religious Right.

    The Religious Right works with the Libertarian wing to advance Federalism and stave off Left Totalitarianism. They are both Constitutionalists. At the end of the day their interests dovetail neatly. Economic Freedom and Prosperity from Free Markets and respect for Private Property advance everybody’s Liberty.

    The Religious Right just wants to be left alone…and the right to Free Expression in the Institutions, and to protect the Rights of the Unborn. You know the Life part of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Tolerance yes, not legal and material aid to deviant sexual behavior.

    And a return to Freedom of Association after 50 years of infringement would be nice to boot.

    The Religious Right isnt the boogeyman you make them out to be. I used to be a pro life libertarian. Still have libertarian propensities, but have grown away from that with life experience.

  • EscapeVelocity

    No, classical liberals and libertarians are the core of the Republican Party. The Democrat party is a socialist party.

  • Audie Bakerson

    Well I’ve always been part of the libertarian party since I was old enough to vote. I’m the clear outlier here.

  • EscapeVelocity

    Hate Speech laws are a infringement upon political speech. They are used by SJW types and Far Left to silence opposition to their totalitarian project.

  • Snakes on a Car

    “The potential for intelligence is the same across the board.. genes a distant, distant second.”

    Prove it.

  • EscapeVelocity

    Wait until Muslims get to decide what is Hate Speech. Enjoy!

  • Snakes on a Car

    “The shit you just said sounds like it came from the mouth of a camo clad militiaman in a bunker 30 feet below Arkansas.”

    Everyone look how a progressive argues. He doesn’t back up anything he says with facts, he goes straight to de-humanizing the opposition.

  • Brad

    The burden of proof lies with the accuser. You prove it, asshole.

  • Brad

    One thing this entire debacle has taught me is that if somebody comes at you with nothin but bullshit, thats all they deserve in return. Keep playing the victim card after ahowing your own bigotry, Anita.

  • Gina

    I’ll make you a deal. I’m conservative, and I’ll vote against any piece of shit so-called Republican that uses video games as part of a moralistic high horse culture-war campaign. It’s the libertarian wings of both parties against the authoritarians in our midst.

  • EscapeVelocity

    The 3/5ths clause was demanded by the Blue States.

    We are a Republic not a Democracy. The Constitution sets up a Republic.

    Classical Liberals were the Left. Socialists are the Far Left.

    Hopefully Classical Liberalism can withstand the Vote Buying with the Public Treasury that the Socialists are using to destroy Liberty and Personal Freedom via dependence and Regulatory Totalitarianism.

  • EscapeVelocity

    I generally see what is happening in #GamerGate as the old Left-Liberal + Conservative Anti-Communist alliance for most of the Cold War. But that started deteriorating about the McGovern campaign of 72…when the New Left Radicals started their long march through the instutions and the Democrat Party. The center of the Democrat Party is the New Left Radicals of the 60s.

  • Doctor Mayhem

    Oh God… that one where I play Devil’s Advocate…

    OWS was originally… not so marxist. Originally, OWS tried to be apolitical. You know, shit that everyone agrees on. No more bailouts, no more lobbying, no more handouts to banksters, etc.

    The OWS you’re thinking of is the one that was hijacked and astroturfed by… wait for it… None other than the very Pinkshirts (SJWs) who are trying to wreck gaming.

  • JoeStork

    So let me get this straight – you went from being a bleeding-heart liberal to voting straight down the line for the party that opposes responsible stewardship of the environment, paying attention to global warming, increasing funding for infrastructure, expanding health insurance coverage, etc., because…some left-wing people in the media made generalizations about your hobby? Man, I’d hate to see what you’d do if they were criticizing something that mattered.

  • Doctor Mayhem

    Your problem: You’re trying to argue logically with someone who has received vaccinations against it.

    Try mock and ridicule instead. Don’t try to convince them, just use them as stress relievers.

  • Trever Bierschbach

    I used to identify strictly Republican, and still registered because of my state’s stupid primary rules, but over the years I’ve become far more libertarian. It’s a hard transition, a lot of preconceived notions had to be squashed and a lot of thinking, but I firmly believe our extreme two-party system has ruined us. I understand what you went through, it really is tough to change something so close to your heart.

  • Doctor Mayhem

    Uh… you forgot Sweden. They’ve taken the Social Justice enema all the way on the first dose.

  • Doctor Mayhem

    Your first problem, gaiz…
    You go to an Arts college.

  • EscapeVelocity

    Im a staunch conservative but listen to a lot of NPR…though I cant bring myself to financially support it. The key is to vary your sources. I suggest Breitbart and Fox News to offer different perspectives. Reason mag is a great place for libertarian views.

    Fox News IS the Balance to the rest of the MSM which leans left. There are Left reporters and pundits that I respect. But you learn who is who pretty quickly.

    You should have wised up to NPR when they shit canned Juan Williams.

    FWIW, NPR does offer access to deep discussion and lots of interesting lessor covered topics. You just have to learn to see the bias and propaganda, then you can learn a lot. Even then, sometimes I have to turn it off.

  • Gina

    Sorry, you’re oversimplifying which is really the important take-away, i.e. not reducing complex movements to simplistic slogans. Early progressivism was authoritarian, sometimes in the extreme. If you’re open to a conservative writer, read Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg.

    As for the Tea Party containing nutters, what large, open movement doesn’t? Haven’t you learned anything from GamerGate?

  • EscapeVelocity

    To hold up Talk Radio hosts as equivalent of News Media journalists is fallacious.

    Bret Baier, Brit Hume, and Shepherd Smith are all rock solid journalists, who hold conservatives feet to the fire as well.

    Another good one is Jake Tapper, who is lost on CNN right now. Wish they’d give him the chair at State of the Union. He would have been my top choice for Meet the Press.

  • MrSnuggles2k2

    Once you realize those boondoggles are meant to consolidate power into the hands of the few elite that control government you will realize they truly are boondoggles.

    And once you realize the people selling you that bill of goods will destroy you for disagreeing with their solutions, you will realize just how big a boondoggle it all really is.

  • EscapeVelocity

    That was Joe Lewis and much of the Congressional Black Caucus, who beared false witness against the Tea Party on the day of Obamacare passage. They are utter scum.

  • EscapeVelocity

    That was Hillary Clinton and Joe Lieberman.

  • Gina

    Here are some lessons I’d give to GamerGate based on years as a
    conservative, facing blacklisting and ostracism and listening to liberal media paint us as evil:

    – Don’t apologize for things you’re not responsible for. Repeat this mantra from the late Andrew
    Breitbart: “Apologize FOR WHAT?” Getting you to apologize is getting you to acknowledge that there’s something bad and wrong about you. It’s a political tactic. The left loves the idea of collective responsibility, especially for their opponents. DON’T BUY IT.

    – Find individual journalists who show integrity and fairness and follow their work, not news outlets.

    – I used to subject myself to daily reading of the NY Times, listening to NPR, and reading outlets like Slate, because I wanted to be exposed to different points of view. Deep down I bought the bullshit that they were smart people and I should listen to them. Then I realized I was giving a hearing to people who would never give a hearing to me. I’ve cut the fat and don’t miss them. Now, I’ve done the same with the gaming press. Good riddance.

    – At some point you just need to stop being defensive. Live your principles, you don’t need to preach them. Trying to do so in a hostile environment is wearying and makes you sound whiny.

  • EscapeVelocity

    The Tea Party will hopefully be able to stop Amnestia, the number one threat to the well being of the small guy, the American worker.

    RINOs, Chamber of Commerce and SJWs are all in on that one. The Tea Party are populists who are for the American People. Not ignorant radical loons. Mark Zuckerberg doesnt want to hire Americans in teh tech sector, he wants to import cheap Asian labor.

  • Ben Jeanotte

    I am *and* was a liberal. Or I am/was a liberal if you are feeling lazy… but no amount of laziness forgives, “I am was a liberal.” You are getting paid for this right? If it just happened, I could assume some kinda typo, but you used that phrase twice in a row, so I can only imagine it was intentional. I am not even some kinda grammar natzi, that is just hard to read. Otherwise, cool article.

  • EscapeVelocity

    That’s why Im working in the Tea Party movement to take back the GOP from the corrupt corporatocrats….and put people with some principles in charge. We’re gonna put classically liberal conservative principles back in charge of the GOP.

  • EscapeVelocity

    Its a circumstance of the system of government. It’s not a parlimentary system.

  • JoeStork

    Cynicism is fine, I have a healthy share of it myself, but reactionary, uninformed cynicism is so depressing. Boondoggles? Our roads are shit, people could be employed by the government to fix them. There are an awful lot of non-elites who care deeply about the environment and health care – ask some of my friends who work low-paying jobs and can see a doctor now. The Democratic Party may be run by gutless corporate toadies, but at least their ranks include a fair number of people who pay attention to science and the imbalance of wealth in this country.

    But, you know, video games. They’re definitely more important.

  • Brad

    I’m guessing you deleted your “Prove it” reply, since it was too telling of your hypocrisy. No matter, I’ll reply again, and then probably never think on you again.

    What facts have you presented? You’ve used nonsense and conservative buzzwords to say a whole lot of nothing. And somehow, bigoted nothing at that.

    I am not going to waste my time digging up information proving you wrong in basically everything you said, only to have you effectively fart and proclaim yourself the winner of this imaginary contest anyway. If you are so sure science is on your side, prove it yourself, as the burden of it falls upon the accuser..

    As for “how a progressive argues”.. keep playing the victim after spewing shit, Anita. It’s no worry of mine.

  • Doctor Mayhem

    Best thing you can do as a conservative: Attack attack attack. Always be on the offense, never let yourself be put on the defensive. NEVER apologize to these traitors. Apologies are signs of weakness, the pinkshirts/SJW/leftist types will only press their attack if you apologize.

    One of my favorite tactics of dealing with a leftist: They love to toss out accusations of racism, I make no effort to debunk. I instead say, “Yeah, well you’re a traitor!” Then press the attack where I question their patriotism. Bonus points if you can use the veteran card.

  • SemperCogitens

    There are pundits and there are legitimate news people. Baier, Hume, Smith, Tapper, and ABC’s Jonathan Karl are all legitimate news people and are among an increasingly endangered breed in the MSM. These people are worthy of respect.

    You’ll notice that I spent time calling out pundits like Rush and Levin. These guys are proliferating. For a long time, these guys were the kings of the right, but now there are more; and the left has always had a plethora of pundits to further their cause. These people are not journalists. These people are ideologues, and while their right to speak is protected, their messages in aggregate are dangerous to the American psyche. They create a team-based mentality that’s harmful to this country. These people are entertainers.

    We need more people who simply lay out the truth, and more importantly, we need the folks to be smart enough to demand the News section over the Editorials.

  • Trever Bierschbach

    Did the strikethroughs not show on your browser? I see a line through ‘am’ in both instances.

  • JoeStork

    That sounds like an awesome method of argument, I bet you’re a cool guy!

  • Doctor Mayhem

    Cooler than you

  • Gina

    Meh, that sounds like too much work. I’m a true individualist. People can believe what they want, as long as they leave me alone. When I have to get active in order to be left alone, that’s when I get really pissed off. Hence GamerGate.

  • JoeStork

    You’re a natural, I can barely keep up with your brutal retorts.

  • Jay

    “You intended to argue semantics with your post, did you not?”

    No. And if you want to be disingenuous and misleading you’re free to do so. Just don’t be surprised when I call you out on it.

    “.. No, actually that’s exactly what a “textbook definition” makes for; defining something. I have to ask, when you’re forming a completely incoherent thought like that, are you destroying basic logic intentionally or are you completely unaware of it happening?”

    Thank you for ignoring everything I’ve said for your own confirmation bias.

    Try reading BEFORE commenting next time.

    “If someone said to you, “The point is that just because something is a fact, doesn’t make it factual” would you agree with them?”

    Socialism is not defined by a damn dictionary. You’re so blinded by your bias that you’ve ignored what I’ve said for a narrow view. What you’ve basically just done is confirm that the textbook definition of feminism makes all people into feminists. It’s the same ridiculous argument and you basically ignore anything outside of that definition. Congratulations.

    “Look, I’m ok with responding to sophistry, but that mess of words doesn’t even rise to that pathetic level.”

    Dear Socrates, stop your ignorance of economic theory and figure out that you don’t know what in hell you’re talking about while projecting your ignorance on others.

    Since most of the next few “paragraphs” are nonsense and you refuse to answer, I’m not going to bother with them.

    “I don’t have to now. You just named ’em both. Thanks dude!”

    *rolls eyes*

    So glad you want to show your ignorance of economics.

    “Why would I listen to a linguist (who you call an economist for some reason) to learn about economics?”

    A lot of people seem to respect his opinion and on foreign policy, he’s unchallenged. Of course, you’re free to contest that if you feel you have the intelligence. Given your nonsensical responses that are more sophist than mine, I would advise against that.

    ” Oh wait, I nearly forgot how you and logic, and reason, and definitions and other scary stuff are not acquainted.”

    The only thing you seem able to do is mock with no actual counter argument. So the points stand, you just want to ignore them for your hugbox.

    “That could easily be the opening sentence to George Orwell’s book “1984”. Do you read books? Read that one.”

    Read that from the Socialist Orwell as well as “On Defending Socialism” by Albert Einstein. So what’s your point?

    “Not if the Socialists get their way.”

    Ah, you use the word for anyone you don’t like. Just like an SJW.

    “Look, this has been a load of fun but I need to go outside now and converse with something a bit more cerebral like ground squirrels or a box of rocks.”

    You do that. You have no point or argument and I do hope one day you’ll actually have an argument worth a damn.

  • Jay

    And I’m a Socialist myself and moved from neoclassical economics to anti-capitalism. And no, that’s not true or accurate at all to conflate the left wing just as SJWs conflate all people as “cis white males”.

  • EscapeVelocity

    May I suggest you read Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg. The Nazis were quite “progressive.”

    Here is a speech where he lays some of what is contained in the book out.

    The reason why Bolsheviks and Nazis fought, including for power inside Germany is that they were factions on the Left fighting for dominance. Left factions often fight one another.

    http://www.c-span.org/video/?203535-1/book-discussion-liberal-fascism

  • EscapeVelocity

    Yes, the much of the Western Center Left parties are Regulatory Fascists. Fascism actually won WW2 (and the Cold War)

  • EscapeVelocity

    The New Left Radicals of the 60s now dominate Left institutions….including the Democrat party.

  • Jay

    “Everything is political to the left.”

    No, it fucking isn’t. This is just a bunch of people reinforcing their own stereotype instead of fucking understanding anything about the “political” aspect of Gamergate and it’s fucking annoying. Instead of trying to understand any other aspect of political thoughts and theories, it’s a bunch of people hugboxing each other as conservatives as if their own stuff doesn’t have problems. And yes, conservatives have been in charge and fucked up the country under Gingrich. But this is games. It’s not supposed to be damn political. And when we have a political party that IS Socialist, I’d be happy. It’s not the fucking Democrats. They’re a neoliberal right wing party and want austerity on a smaller scale than Republicans. That IS NOT the entire left and it’s dishonest to say so.

    ” The right is simply reacting and finally trying to beat them at their own game.”

    No, if you notice how this stuff works, people respond to who they believe is in power. Since a liberal is in power, people move right wing. When a conservative is in power, people move left wing. That’s the difference of how politics worked in France and Greece. France turned more right wing since a “Socialist” was in charge while Greece had the Syriza party (left wing) gain power out of nowhere as the left gained power.

    “It was the left who politicized gaming, the libertarians/conservatives are simply pointing it out and calling bull shit, something they weren’t able to do with as much force before alternative internet based media made it possible to fight back against the well coordinated, corporate mainstream media agenda.”

    Congratulations on a witch hunt just like SJWs do for shit that some people on the damn left didn’t do. That’s an amazing victim complex, particularly when people whine when SJWs do the same thing.

    “Gamergate is the same tactics the media complex and totalitarian statists have used against many other groups who disagree with their version of orthodoxy.”

    Well shit… Not like Nixon didn’t do this in the 70s… It’s all about left wing now…

    “They just happened to misunderstand gamers, they thought gamers are mostly misogynistic and socially inept.”

    When have those in power ever understood the people they undermine?

    “Thank God gamers are smart and most are well educated, they have managed to wake up a whole new group of people who are now aware of their tactics and will now be able see through their “narratives.””

    And if you fail to learn the problems, you’re doomed to repeat it, just with a different group.

  • EscapeVelocity

    It was never about Free Speech with them. They at the same time pushed No Platform (for those on the Right). And then marched through the university faculty and implemented Speech Codes as soon as they were able.

    Actions speak louder than words.

    Also look into the notion of Repressive Tolerance, which was coined and advocated by Herbert Marcuse of the Frankfurt School (Cultural Marxism). He is very influential amongst the New Left. It’s a recipe for suppression of Political Speech.

  • Sinbe

    You voted because of political leaning instead of policy issues? That is just childish. Let’s get real here. There are real issues that affect American lives much more than your gamer’s feeling being hurt.
    To vote the way you did, it’s irresponsible, also probably self-destructive. Do you think your conservative senator will be more sympathetic to your cause than a liberal one? I doubt it.

  • Sinbe

    You are out of touch. The conservatives are much more likely to establish law based on ideologies and intrude into social matters. The small government conservatives aim for are only for economic matters – they want less regulations and tax on businesses.

  • Jay

    Jonah Goldberg’s book is misleading and dishonest to the extreme. He has no understanding of (and apologizes for) right wingers while ignoring things such as the Du Pont plots which were done by reactionaries.

    I really can’t recommend his book even after reading it. All he seems to do is point to liberals as the problem while I’d argue that they’re a canary in the coalmine when the system of capitalism has run amok.

  • ash

    Wow. So free speech is a US ideal projection on to you. Wow. I’m on board with that. You need some rational projection. BTW Hate speech laws are entirely a leftist/social Marxist creation to punish people for having the “wrong thoughts”. Thank god I live here in the US.

    “I much prefer that than people being allowed to make public racist or homophobic protests/slogans.”

    No you prefer a public being enslaved under your social Marxist worldview in the guise of so called “hate speech”. Plenty of morons here in the US making sick comments but we don’t jail or fine them. That’s irrational. Only a left wing statist would be wanting to jail or fine people for speech they don’t like. That’s called a tyranny. Because we all know left wing statists are insecure with a high dose of passive aggressiveness they look to the government to punish people they don’t like. Looks like the more things change in Britain the more things stay the same after the revolution..Glad the gaming community is wise to your Social Marxist klepocratic bullshit. It’s like a virus.

  • Jay

    If you read the Federalist Papers, Madison was adamant on creating a democratic republic. It was Framers such as Henry who feared democracy because of the slaves that would gain rights.

    “Classical Liberals were the Left.”

    ???

    Unless you mean neoclassical left, that makes no sense…

    “Socialists are the Far Left.”

    That depends on what they do but this is still not understanding what they do with the system.

    “Hopefully Classical Liberalism can sustain the Vote Buying with the Public Treasury that the Socialists are using to destroy Liberty and Personal Freedom via dependence and Regulatory Totalitarianism.”

    This makes no sense whatsoever…

  • EscapeVelocity

    Identity Politics of the Left is basically the same toxic Identity Politics of the Nazis….just with coalition of Minority “Nazis.” Im not demonizing every minority here, the leadership however has led them astray. Cultural Marxists co-opted the Civil Rights Movement to use for their own nefarious purposes. Just look at what decades of Progressive Government has done to Detroit or many other American cities…filled with ghettos of minorities, in the same hopeless jobless ghettos theyve been in for decades. Time to get off that bus of dependence and blame shifting, and start supporting prosperity for all an liberty for all.

  • Jay

    Fuck you.

    I actually backed up my argument and can’t help if you and Caine want to be in a hug box of bullshit. If you can actually back up your argument with something besides a stupid comment, step up to the plate.

    But don’t act as if your shit doesn’t stink by assuming I’m some goddamn SJW when I hate their nonsense just as much as I don’t like conservative bullshit that’s going to hurt the economy.

  • EscapeVelocity

    The best way out of poverty is a job, and conservative social behavior and values.

    It’s not a government program or a welfare bennies. That only fosters dependence, not independence and self sufficiency. It subsidizes behavior that leads to bad outcomes, economic and social.

    Until you get that, you are perpetuating human misery…all to stroke your own ego about how great a person you are because you care, unlike those tough love realists.

  • Doctor Mayhem

    See! It works! Lulz

  • EscapeVelocity

    Yes, I see #GamerGate as like the old Anti-Communist Cold War coalition…of Left-Liberals and Conservatives against the Far Left Totalitarians.

    The Social Democrats originally mostly allied with the Far Left, then the Far Left gained power and started show trials and purges against even them, not just the Conservatives and others. They wised up, eventually.

  • Jay

    Marxism hasn’t been embraced since 1946,

    If anything, Occupy was Anarchist, similar to how Gamergate was pretty free roaming.

    The problem is in how the grass roots movements are marginalized considerably but there’s a few coming up such as the Socialist Alternative.

    What I have a problem with is people conflating six terms which they believe is synonymous: Communist, Socialist, Anarchist, Marxist, Terrorist, Muslim.

    Reason these are conflated is the fact that the last century was all about the right wing (liberals included) crushing unions, Socialists, and Communists.

    That came about because the rich wanted to make sure never to have a progressive president like FDR again. They limited the power of the president to two terms, destroyed unions with the Taft Hartley Act, ensured that Communists went from a political party to agents of Moscow (Hellooooo McCarthyism) and basically said that Socialism was another word for Communism (Hollywood Blacklist and COINTELPRO)

    That’s kind of why people really need to do some research outside of Wikipedia on this. There really isn’t a Left in America, and you’re right. It has to be redone to undo capitalism and the inequality created by it.

    It just takes time and (hopefully) can be done similar to how it was done in FDR’s time.

  • Jay

    *shrug*

    You’re just being a coward that can’t argue worth a damn.

    Nice trolling, I guess?

    Grow up, dude.

  • EscapeVelocity

    They didnt switch parties, they were always right there on the Left, in plain sight.

  • EscapeVelocity

    In US norms the Center Social Democrat parties et all are Far Left and the Center “Conservative” parties are Center Left.

  • EscapeVelocity

    Head on over to Cuba. Enjoy!

  • EscapeVelocity

    Those rates are affected radically by how deaths of premature and newborn babies are reported to the WHO are different as determined by individual countries. They are worthless.

    Mexican regularly cross the border for free health care services in the United States. We have universal Health Care via EMTALA signed into law by President Reagan.

  • Jay

    “The Nazis were quite “progressive.”

    No, they weren’t. Berlin being changed to a more conservative image was at the hands of the Nazis and Hitler was pretty well known for fighting Communists in Germany before his rise to power.

    All Goldberg does is point the finger at liberals and claims (dishonestly) that it’s their fault for some of the atrocities made.

    No, that’s not how this works. The Left wanted a democracy in the Weimar Republic and Hitler was nominated for power and abused it. He used crony capitalism to ensure that backers such as Prescott Bush could make fund his war efforts. There’s far more, but I really didn’t like looking at Goldberg’s book which is dishonest about the history of fascism.

  • EscapeVelocity

    Definitely needs to be reformed. Obamacare however is a job killing disaster, that harms more people than it helps.

  • EscapeVelocity

    I dont think that is true. And the Conservative Party in Canada is moving Right, thanks to Fox News and Americcan conservatism. 😉

  • Sinbe

    This comment section looks like another echoing chamber of people who wants to get their narrow worldview affirmed. Outsider’s perspective are no good here. Move along.

  • EscapeVelocity

    Eventually they come for you….and there was no one left to speak for you.

  • EscapeVelocity

    I like Christ Centered Gamer and The Niche Gamer too. Some like GamerNosh. There is room for all in my bookmarks.

  • Snakes on a Car

    All the first world countries are White or north-east Asian. All the sub-Saharan black countries are third world.

  • EscapeVelocity

    This cant be stressed enough…

    Find individual journalists who show integrity and fairness and follow their work, not news outlets.

  • Snakes on a Car

    If Democrats solved problems why is Detroit a shit-hole?

  • Sinbe

    another sheep who votes on political attractiveness instead of real policy issues.

  • EscapeVelocity

    TechRaptor is the Fox News of Gaming Media.

  • Sinbe

    “90 percent of their arguments are ad hominem.” Sources please? No? I thought so.
    Spare us your propaganda. You make general statements about “the left”, you are also guilty of identity politics.

  • EscapeVelocity

    And vote against Lindsey Graham and John McCain too.

  • EscapeVelocity

    Taking them down takes Kotaku down.

    You cant take Polygon down without taking Vox down. Though you can take em down a few notches, especially with eternal boycotts.

  • EscapeVelocity

    What if I were to tell you that Christians invented science and developed it to it’s highest rigor, and that Global Warming Alarmist skepticism isnt Anti-Science, but that claiming the unproven hypothesis is a fact is IN FACT Anti-Science.

    Red Pill incoming.

  • EscapeVelocity

    We can scrub CO2 effectively using 100 year old techology, if it really is or becomes a problem. The whole thing is a fearmongering sham to push Socialist command control of the economy.

  • Doctor Mayhem

    cool story brah

  • EscapeVelocity

    That crazy SJW loon Elizabeth Warren is on the horizon as Democrat nominee for the Presidency. She even claims to be Native American to advance her career via special preferences. Dont hold your breath.

  • EscapeVelocity

    SJWs have been running the White House for 6 years. Nancy Pelosi is an SJW. And Harry Reid is even worse.

  • ash

    Good point. Once the Muslim population there in Britain grows more and more thanks to Britain’s insane immigration policies and start to affect hate speech laws to cover something like “blasphemy against Muhammad” then will see if Pancake and other leftists will still approve of “hate speech” polices in Britain. They probably still will accept it because the average leftist clings on to ideology more so than commonsense and rational thought

  • Brad

    I would reply that while I acknowledge that many of the first Western scientists were ostensibly christian (though most were skirting the edge of apostasy), no denomination of Christianity as policy developed nor even truly embraced science.

    I would also tell you that you are wasting your time as well as mine trying to sell that the 3% of scientists who have outlandish, all over the place theories of what is causing climate change which disagree with the 97% of them which are in total agreement.

    I’d say what you have there is more of a red skittle, sport.

  • EscapeVelocity

    You sound like a nutter that blames the Jews for Marxism/Communism.

  • EscapeVelocity

    Blame shifting. It’s socieity’s fault. It’s white privilege’s fault. It’s mens fault.

    Get real dude.

    Circumstantial poverty should be alleviated by true charity, not wealth redistribution. To help people back on their feet. Government welfare benefits serve as subsidies for self destructive behavior. They dont alleviate poverty…they perpetuate it.

    That being said, if there is a place in government for this, it’s at the state and local level, not the US Federal Govt level. One size does not fit all. Let the govts closer to the people decides how to handle this issue. Dont make it a national shouting match for many varied states peoples and their cultures.

  • Sinbe

    Nah, Libertarianism is the home of freedom. Conservatives remove your choice of getting an abortion, they will disallow pot, gay marriage, etc.
    Freedom of speech means that you will get hurt, you will get offended. But that’s ok, it’s part of testing ideas, it’s part of growing up. So my advice for gamergate people is this: exercise your freedom of speech. Don’t let empty labels like “misogynist” scare you away. Make your voice heard with your arguments and ideas (but not death threats). This gamergate thing is a social & cultural issues, not a legal issue (until death threats comes in.) Your only chance of winning is to make reasonable arguments and spread you ideas.

  • Hal Jalikakik

    What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.

  • karmashock

    Sinbe, do republicans call people racists? Do they call people woman haters? Do they say that they only are about the rich and just want to screw the poor over?

    They don’t. That’s what the side you are attempting to protect does… pretty much constantly. And everyone knows it… even you. So lets not play stupid games like children and just admit things are what they are… saves time.

    And as I said… it is an addiction… and the first thing you know about addictions… is that those that are addicted deny their own addiction.

    You can’t stop. You don’t know how to stop. It is sad but we’re doing all we can to break the cycle. Sadly this means unraveling each and every stupid ad hominem one at a time in real time. Which is a pain in the ass. But its all we’ve found that works.

    In any case… please deny reality more… point at the sun and tell me it is a fish. It is what is expected at this point.

  • Jake_Was_Here

    The “Yes Means Yes” proposals are such a blatant and grotesque attempt at forcible social engineering that they make the Defense of Marriage Act look cheap and unambitious.

  • Sinbe

    No, you know that I don’t make general statements like that. Some people from the left do and I disapprove strongly, just like I disapprove of your sweeping general statements about “the left”
    “That’s what the side you are attempting to protect does… pretty much constantly.” You once again talking about sides. It’s black and white for you, isn’t it? Identity politics in a nutshell.
    “please deny reality more…” I don’t deny reality, I just don’t like hypocrites who don’t follow their own advice.

  • Hal Jalikakik

    The term is “echo chamber”, skippy. And the rest of your comments are written at a predictable eighth grade level. Is it too late to tack an English minor onto your mathematician training?

    But I hear Gawker is hiring writers–I’m sure they’ll welcome a whiny, bumbling leftist stooge like you with open arms.

  • Jake_Was_Here

    The Window of Acceptable Opinion has been shifted further to the left, thanks to the collusion of extreme-leftist politics and extreme-leftist media — and now all these people who thought of themselves as good, decent liberals are suddenly finding themselves falling off the Right side of the frame.

  • Sinbe

    All I hear is ad hominem, no substance whatsoever. It doesn’t make what I said any less true.
    edit: English is not my 1st language, but I think you can understand me perfectly well.

  • Sinbe

    HAHAHA You? I have enough respect for the Navy Seals to know that they don’t flaunt their credentials on the internet and make threats over a few words a random person said. Go away troll.

  • Hal Jalikakik

    I don’t give a fuck who you are or where you live. You can count on me to be there to bring your fucking life to a hellish end. I’ll put you in so much fucking pain that it’ll make Jesus being nailed to a cross in the desert look like a fucking back massage on a tropical island. I don’t give a fuck how many reps you have or how tough you are IRL, how well you can fight, or how many fucking guns you own to protect yourself. I’ll fucking show up at your house when you aren’t home. I’ll turn all the lights on in your house, leave all the water running, open your fridge door and not close it, and turn your gas stove burners on and let them waste gas. You’re going to start stressing the fuck out, your blood pressure will triple, and you’ll have a fucking heart attack. You’ll go to the hospital for a heart operation, and the last thing you’ll see when you’re being put under in the operating room is me hovering above you, dressed like a doctor. When you wake up after being operated on, wondering what ticking time bomb is in your chest waiting to go off. You’ll recover fully from your heart surgery. And when you walk out the front door of the hospital to go home I’ll run you over with my fucking car out of no where and kill you. I just want you to know how easily I could fucking destroy your pathetic excuse of a life, but how I’d rather go to a great fuckng length to make sure your last remaining days are spent in a living, breathing fucking hell. It’s too late to save yourself, but don’t bother committing suicide either… I’ll fucking resuscitate you and kill you again myself you bitch-faced phaggot. Welcome to hell, population: you.

  • Sianmink

    “telling me I’m no longer wanted as an unashamed, voting liberal.”

    Now that’s not true. Liberals love to be ashamed of their country, its ideals, and their fellow human beings.

  • Sinbe

    True color: revealed. I’m impressed with the speed that you come up with all that crap, or did you copy paste that from somewhere?

  • Hal Jalikakik

    You’re obviously still butthurt to the max over Tuesday.

    Why don’t you send Mary Landrieu $50, watch a few Anita Sarkeesian videos, and then cry yourself to sleep as you suck your thumb?

  • Sinbe

    You amuse me, troll. Anything else you got?

  • EscapeVelocity

    I would tell you that you are dead wrong.

    Furthermore, consensus is not science. AGW is an unproven hypothesis with ZERO predictive models that prove accurate.

    Furthermore, demonizing and ostracizing critics and those questioning assertions, methodology, data sets, made by scientists (including other scientists) is IN FACT Anti-Science.

    The Catholic Church did more than any other institution in nuturing and developing science. They trained Galileo for God’s sake in their university system that they developed to nuture learning and education.

    I implore you to read this article by Thomas Woods…

    How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization

    http://archive.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods40.html

  • Hal Jalikakik

    Nope. The thorough, irrefutable pwnage of your pathetic debating ability is, sadly, all I’ve got.

  • EscapeVelocity

    Dave Pakman is a breath of fresh air. I must say. A Left progressive that takes the craft and duty of journalism seriously.

  • EscapeVelocity

    Watch the video I posted.

  • Hal Jalikakik

    Don’t worry, we’re coming for your ObamaCare. And your Obama Phone.

  • EscapeVelocity

    They will actually leave you to your own business in your own states. Which the Left will not do.

  • EscapeVelocity

    Yep, with every success the Left just keeps moving further Left. They will keep pushing that way until the new Global Soviet is established.

  • Brad

    As I said, you are wasting both your time and mine. All you are doing is calling actual science anti-science, and your still unspecified alternative theory the real deal. You have no hope of changing my own independently formed opinion on the matter just as I have no hope of miraculously converting you to Agnosticism by pointing out that I was raised devoutly Roman Catholic, have already read the whitewashings of “christian” scientists and apologists, and have found them to be sorely lacking when it comes to actual, historical fact when it comes to Rome’s policy. The mere fact that a scientist was born into a particular faith does NOT give his accomplishments to that faith, especially when the controlling elements at the time, had they a firmer grip, almost certainly would have snuffed out the research. Hell, if you actually do the research you will find that even more scholarly or humanist orders of Jesuits were declared heretical by “holy mother church”.

  • EscapeVelocity

    Goodbye Sweden – Pat Condell

  • EscapeVelocity

    Sweden: Ship of Fools – Pat Condell

  • EscapeVelocity

    Sweden Goes Insane – Pat Condell

  • BottledWater

    Happy to have you on the right!

  • DocAmazing

    Based on your reasoning, it’s pretty hard to believe that you were ever much of a liberal.

  • Jericho79

    Sadly I must for my chosen field so I can learn my trade. Visual Effects don’t teach themselves easily 😛

  • Magic Carpet

    At this point in time, liberals are more dangerous than conservatives. The ideas and actions of liberals are becoming more and more religious and resemble radical ideologues.

  • Freakydemon

    Liberals/Democrats in the US (which aren’t even liberals in political terms) are not socialists. Most of their policies have little to do with socialism, at least the ones they put in practice. One exception would be the push for universal health care.

  • tdc898 .

    As a Canadian, the problem I have is that it’s pretty difficult to really understand where any one party really stands. For example, I live in BC, where the BC Liberal Party is far more right-wing than the Federal Liberal Party.

  • Freakydemon

    “Some 10 people somewhere in a chat room made idiotic comments, this thus proves that an entire revolt of ten thousands of people is in fact about what I say, not about what they say.” You know for someone who listens and believes, you sure don’t believe a lot.

  • Brad Sherard

    Must have been nerve wracking to submit such a contentious and personal article to an audience(younger, tech savvy, and on the internet) probably made up more than not of liberals, followed by libertarians. This sort of thing has to be treated with such caution, particularly when elections are going on.

    For that same reason, I’ll avoid going into why I condemn all forms of statism and why I am proud to have never voted. I just want to let you know that I understand where you are coming from even if I think the means you have chosen are mistaken. Given what you know, I’d have made the same choice.

  • They didn’t just steal that, they stole all their scummy tactics too!
    They even stole their religion, and ask you to Pray just the same.
    They even stole their ideology, and tell you to Listen, never Think.
    They literally HAVE become Jerry Falwell’s Moral Majority.

  • What’s amazing is how they’re becoming too extreme for even other extremists.
    I’ve had conversations through #Gamergate with the whole communist spectrum.
    Marxists, Marxist/Leninsts, Trotskyites, Maoists, Pure strain Leninists, Anti-Globalists, Black bloc radicals, Egyptian Sabahists, avant garde hippies, punks…
    Literally every leftist whose movement roots was founded before the mid-70s or is foreign born is gaping in horror at this slovenly groupthinking beast they birthed.
    The mistreatment of Sawyer and Miller, going so much against everything they stand for, they’ve told me has reduced them to tears and shattered their beliefs.
    They want to abort this disgustingly smug troglodyte with extreme prejudice.

  • there’ still a lot of people that call themselves Marxist, but their views never actually line up with Marx. The worst of the group fall to Gramsci/Frankfurt, followed by Mao, Trotsky, Stalin, Chomsky, Leninists at the very end being the more rational/reasonable of the bunch. Lets just say, people who run on cult of personality, they tend to do a much better job of running things once they’re actually dead.

  • woooooo #100!

  • James Desborough too! They hassled him so bad he tried to suicide.
    Then they turn right around and say getting mad at Zoe and Christine for sleeping their way up is ‘kink/slut-shaming’ WTF

  • UK has/is home to PeTA and SHAC. You guys got better, but you aren’t completely out of the woods! Don’t let down your guard, they’ll be back, and your main conservatives are kinda ass. Go UKIP!

  • They’re largely in the same position as the tea party. A lot of neophytes, and maybe a couple more well-connected bandwagoners leaping into something wholly out of their element. They talk a good game, but I don’t think they can deliver. In that sort of case, your goal is to get the main party you’re for (Tory/Labour/etc whatever you fly) to recognise why you’re talking about UKIP and encourage them to abduct those points and make them their own. Alternatively, you can convince UKIP’s best to merge forwards into one of those, such as how the DVU merged into the NPD in my country, and how the Christian Democrats and Social Democrats blocked that by temporarily merging some of their talking points.

  • PancakeWizard

    Now you’re being paranoid, jingoistic and ignorant. Congrats on the hatrick! How about you deal with your country and i keep to mine? ‘Sicial marxism’. You’re insane. Last i checked my country had less racism, ghettos, homophobia and gun crime than yours.

    Also, UK hate speech laws were a conservative RIGHT WING creation.

  • PancakeWizard

    OK you’re one of *them*. There’s not enough tinfoil in the world. ‘Muslims under the beds’.

  • Jay

    … You’re doing the same conflation that others do about conservatives. Like, seriously… Stop doing that. There’s a lot that each person contributed to Marxist theories even though Marx was nothing more than a critic of capitalism.

  • The Deuce

    Todd, very interesting article! You might be interested in another article that by chance I happened to read right after this one, where Danusha Goska explains why he has recently walked away from the Left. It hits a lot of themes that I think will be very familiar to a lot of GamerGaters who have been dealing with SJWs: http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/danusha-v-goska/ten-reasons-why-i-am-no-longer-a-leftist/

  • Jay

    Okay, as soon as you watch the videos I post:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhGfCTA_6wA

    Bear in mind, nothing I post is anything I haven’t already watched.

  • karmashock

    We’re not talking about you personally. We’re talking about large national political movements. Your own personal standards in that matter are as irrelevant to me as my own standards as regards my own ideology are irrelevant to you.

    Are you going to attempt to be on topic or is this what I can expect from you? Because if these silly evasions are all you’ve got then I’m curious why you think anyone should sustain a discussion with you?

  • Gina

    So basically, he does the same thing that liberal historians do only he acknowledges his bias.

  • ronehjr

    Read more history. The left has always been authoritarian.

  • Condorito Jones

    I read the article. Pretty powerful stuff, and yes, things we have seen a lot of lately as part of GamerGate.

  • ronehjr

    That is just an unreasonable statement. The right, even the religious right, is not some conformist blob that thinks and acts in concert, especially in matters of private institutions hiring and firing. You have been fed and swallowed a lot of bs about people you are not familiar with as a group, and cannot be because the ‘religious right’ is a very large and diverse group that believes in individual freedom.

  • Jay

    There’s far more than liberal historians. Just as an example, I think Lamar Waldron does great work into Nixon and lets the facts speak for themselves.

    I find it questionable that ANYONE would put their bias in front of the facts. Why do I want to read anyone that has their conclusion from page 1? It’s fundamentalism instead of objectivity.

  • Another Loser

    Not true, before now, most moral guardians were of the religious right, & oddly enough, most of today’s left-wing moral guardians started their careers off rebelling against the right-wing moral guardians. Welp, she who fights monsters.

  • Gina

    Normally I would agree, but for people who have been so steeped in one viewpoint (as the poster up above) it can be eye-opening to see the same events through a different lens.

  • Another Loser

    The Right does it too, though to a lesser extent than the Left, I don’t trust either political party, especially the Republicans, being made up of the religious right, who would just force biblical morals on everyone, like how the so-called SJWs tried to force progressive morals on everyone, & fiscal conservatives who seem to think that an 80-something actor was right when he suggested letting the rich have bigger portions so the middle & lower classes could have more table-scraps.

  • Gina

    “undo capitalism”
    Which you’re only ever going to do using jackboot tactics. So back around we come. The reason people conflate those terms is because in the end, all authoritarians start to look alike.

  • John Stephens

    Lighten up, Francis.

  • Quintis Arrius

    Gamers are guys and girl gamers are rare, kinda like the girl classmates in college level stem classes. You would be called out by fellow libs for any number of other issues. They just haven’t found the next meme.
    As for me, its hard to claim any victory last Tuesday.

  • Jay

    “Which you’re only ever going to do using jackboot tactics. ”

    Wrong. Capitalism is only 300 years old and it’s a type of system that can end in a number of ways. Whether that’s a totalitarian state as its end goal through inequality or society deciding to allocate resources in a more egalitarian manner is undecided. but it’s a part of the struggle.

    “The reason people conflate those terms is because in the end, all authoritarians start to look alike.”

    Or someone’s being lazy and doing the same thing they criticize feminists in doing…

  • Jay

    I already checked out Goldberg years ago when I was libertarian. I have no interest in picking up his book now because it’s not historically accurate. He basically wants to take the heat off of himself and rewrite history in his favor. Someone so intellectually dishonest is not someone I want to check out and support.

  • Gina

    Large, pluralistic societies don’t ever “decide” these things. A segment decides and then imposes it on the rest. You even admit it, by calling it a struggle.

  • Winston

    Strrawmen and caricatures. You have had eight years to convince people of your “responsible stewardship.” You failed utterly. Good intentions, such as they are (although global warming is just another whale in the reactor-look, we are saving the world!) cannot substitute for incompetence in practice. People have considered your positions and rejected them. The health care bill is so successful that the president still hasn’t implemented all of it and it remains just as unpopular. Why is that? People just don’t get it? Or maybe it already harmed more people than it helped.

  • EscapeVelocity

    Yes, Im one of those people who deals in reality. Pancake.

  • Winston

    To make up for a lot more people who lost their health care plans and all the people that are still uninsured.

  • EscapeVelocity

    No, you just chose not to see them. You saw them as liberators tearing down the Old Order, but it was clear what their “new order” was all about from the beginning. Marxism is about morality at it’s core. Enforcing values and morality via state totalitarianism.

    You just didnt look past the rhetoric to see what these Leftists were about.

    For example, look at Global Warming. The argument goes that it is a moral duty for you to support massive state regulation and wealth redistribution in order to save humanity and yourself.

    The formulation itself is that of Christian fearmongering of Hell. You want to avoid Hell dont you? Well then you must act in a moral manner according to these values and precepts. (They totally ignore that 1. there is no proof of Global Warming and 2. that there are other ways to counter CO2 atmospheric rise and avoid ill affects even if it were so.

    But moralism was always at the core of Marxism, Socialism, Social Democracy, etc…from the get go. And Authoritarianism as well, Govt Regulation and Wealth Redistribution are both moral authoritarian at their core. The Left cant get enough of either. They will regulate every part of your life, that’s why they call it totalitarianism. It’s why Christians are preferable, they dont want to control every part of your life, they just have a few things that they insist on.

  • David Gray

    I take it as a given that all of USA is far right on my scale, as a Brit.
    I think our conservatives are mostly to the left of America, and they’re WAY too right wing for me 😛

  • David Gray

    The difference is some of the nutters were in charge with wide support.
    I’m not saying the tea party were fairly represented by the media, or that they majority weren’t decent folks (I actually believe most conservatives in the USA are wonderful people, they just seem to have strange views on politics imo)
    When you have candidates that will NOT shut up about Obama’s identity, that is a problem. On both sides. Identity politics cost the Dem’s, but the Rep’s are equally guilty of it with the birther stuff (which should embarrass ANY decent human being)
    When the affordable healthcare act is being shot at by candidates, something is VERY wrong. It was a conservative idea, adopted by the dem’s as a compromise to address a genuine social problem. Any politician suggesting it was an evil plot to institute death panels needs to be called out, not voted for.

    The problem here is that people seem unable to call out their own side.
    I do. I regularly argue with left wingers. I’m openly antifeminist, as a socialist. I get into PLENTY of arguments and have explicitly stated I despise several prominent feminists on “my side” of the political aisle.
    Care to do the same?
    Or are we going to pretend that it was all the liberal news and in fact all right wing politicians and pundits are awesome people that never say anything retarded or espouse stupid ideas?

  • EscapeVelocity

    Sorry Pancake, Hate Speech Laws were implemented by the Labour Govt.

  • maybe

    Perhaps all of those true believers you listed are not familiar with Antonio Gramsci.

  • David Gray

    And I suggest that you have been sold a bill of goods.
    You are essentially accusing me (a social moderate; in that I strongly espouse my political beliefs, but believe in a competing marketplace of ideas where argument, dissent and consensus are more important that which “side” wins) of supporting the “extreme left” that really does not exist, while pretending that your position is somehow moderate.

    Fact is, the right wing has seizes a LOT of ground, and the left has drifted right in almost every nation.
    This has meant the left needed to distinguish itself from the right SOMEHOW when their policies are almost identical, so they adopted socially liberal values.
    The conservatives have recently started to do this too, and so we see the “left” desperately trying to “out do” their political opponents by pushing identity politics.

    Any interpretation that suggests the Democrats are authoritarian left is actually retarded.
    Any historical revision that does not explain the origins of the left in ANTI AUTHORITARIAN POLITICS is wilfully ignorant or manipulating the reader.
    Honest conservatives and libertarians are fine by me, but the breed of ideologue that just regurgitates one sided propaganda is NO FUCKING DIFFERENT than the SJW motherfuckers we’re currently fighting.
    Your “social justice” is just some “free association” idealism.

  • EscapeVelocity

    Dont take Christian or Catholic apologists word for it. As the article leads with, read actual objective modern science historians.

    “We have all heard a great deal about the Church’s alleged hostility toward science. What most people fail to realize is that historians of science have spent the past half-century drastically revising this conventional wisdom, arguing that the Church’s role in the development of Western science was far more salutary than previously thought. I am speaking not about Catholic apologists but about serious and important scholars of the history of science such as J.L. Heilbron, A.C. Crombie, David Lindberg, Edward Grant, and Thomas Goldstein.”

    You are just flat wrong. I know it’s hard to accept new and better information and update your beliefs, especially since their is so much else of your identity riding on those beliefs. But the truth is the truth, regardless of your rejection of it. Good luck with that.

    Or you can pursue the authors listed above and embrace the truth.

  • Hal Jalikakik

    You just made the list, pal 🙂

  • JoeStork

    There would be a lot more people insured if Republican governors had accepted the Medicaid expansion.

  • JoeStork

    None of the doomsday predictions about the health care bill have come true. Costs aren’t skyrocketing, more than enough people signed up, it’s helping people.

    But you’re right. The Republican propaganda campaign and endless focus on how to make Democrats fail or appear to be failing was successful, and the Democrats didn’t have an effective response. It’s a great way to run a country.

  • Gina

    “Birthers” are a fringe minority- even calling them a minority overestimates their numbers and importance, which is zero. Your mentioning them in connection to conservatives is exactly analogous to anti-GamerGate people not being able to shut up about misogyny and death threats. It’s a tactic by which the whole is dismissed because of a few. As I said in another comment, I refuse to apologize for, or be characterized by, things I never espoused or did.

    Don’t even get me started on that piece of shit ACA, which is resulting in more people losing insurance than started out not being insured, with the impact falling predominantly on working poor and middle class. I’m middle class myself, a clerical worker employed by a small business, and there’s nothing that threatens our financial stability right now more than the ACA. It’s the main factor which I see pulling us back into a state of debt and dependency.

  • Jay

    “Large, pluralistic societies don’t ever “decide” these things.”

    City states such as Rome or Athens would like a word. This also ignores other types of organizations which we’ve utilized in considerable number such as corporations or co-ops.

    “A segment decides and then imposes it on the rest.”

    That’s ignoring what democracy is…

    “You even admit it, by calling it a struggle.”

    Uhm… What? Yeah, differences in a capitalist society come out in how employers and employees are treated. The experience of a worker with that of an employer are going to be different creating class conflict. I don’t see what is bad about knowing about this difference in experience. But to ignore that this happens and claim that capitalism will ALWAYS be around ignores things like feudalism which were around for far longer but eventually died out as a way to organize a society.

  • Gina

    I’m sorry, are you using stratified aristocratic societies as models of egalitarianism?

    I’m not against cooperative, voluntary arrangements, but these will only ever be on a small scale, and have negligible impact on large economies.

    Feudalism died away, as most systems do, on the bloody end of a pike. You can’t simultaneously assert utopianism and pacifism.

  • PancakeWizard

    public order act 1986, douglas herd: con MP. criminal justice and public order act 1994, michael howard, con MP. I’m sure when labour were in government they added stuff, but thats not where it began.

  • Ben Jeanotte

    Oh sorry to be snotty then, no, they did not appear in firefox.

  • Winston

    So many talking points, so little time. Face it, the bill sucked.

  • Winston

    Yes because the media is so pro-Republican. People vote by their experiences, not by propaganda. Everything about the bill was bs. They do not have an effective response because there isn’t one. And all of the bill still has not been implemented. So everyone who voted against the Democrats was just ill-informed? At some point even you do not buy that. You give Progressives a chance to govern and it is a debacle virtually everytime. The Democratic party got hijacked by extremists and they ran their party into the ground.

  • midlandmillionairez

    I think that is overly simplistic. Britain is in many ways an extremely conservative society.

    Also, many European countries are more right-wing in some respects, such as intense aversion to debt and more hostility to immigrants. It’s hard to imagine the equivalent of Obama being elected to lead a European country.

    Obviously America is more religious, and there is more hostility towards a welfare state,
    but the terms “left” and “right” are often meaningless.

    Europeans might want to stereotype Americans as gun-toting rednecks, but in reality the US is an extremely diverse country.

  • midlandmillionairez

    As an outsider to this, it seems like a big root of the problem is the seemingly DESPERATE need among game developers to be seen as “artistes”, rather than what society largely views them as, technicians who make entertainment products that generate billions in revenue. While certainly there is a creative element, and only a fool would not concede that someone like Miyamoto is a visionary, the reality is that by and large the public is always going to view video games in a certain way.

  • JoeStork

    Well, it’s a fact that the Republicans adopted a strategy of attempting to block every major policy initiative that Obama proposed, and had a fair amount of success. They couldn’t block the health-care bill, though they did get it watered down a bit, and have been screaming about a government takeover for 4 years. “Everything about the bill was bs” – like what?

    “hijacked by extremists” – I wish! Then maybe we could have had single-payer health care, a truly effective stimulus program, no expansion of coastal drilling, an end to corporate welfare, campaign finance reform, you name it. Talk to some actual Progressives once in a while, see if they’re particularly happy with Obama. He’s been center-left at best. As for extremism, I see only one party in which politicians are afraid to say anything more liberal than “I’m not a scientist” regarding climate change.

    No, not everyone is ill-informed, but if Republicans had made a good-faith effort to work with Obama, if health care, infrastructure programs, stimulus packages, etc had passed with bipartisan support, his administration (and Congress) would have much higher approval ratings. But intentionally causing gridlock makes the ruling party look like a failure, so they did that. The Republican strategy makes sense, it’s just deeply cynical and runs counter to the health of the nation.

  • JoeStork

    Oh, it sucked? Well, there’s glory for you!

  • David Gray

    I don’t argue with that, but I maintain that right wing ideologues push the definitions of words for their own advantage.
    Also: The UK has extremely diverse political leaders. The Labour leader is the son of Polish Jewish immigrants, we have a fairly diverse political landscape (even if the current government is mostly white oxford graduates, I genuinely think its more “who you know” than direct racism)
    We had a Jewish PM over 100 years ago, a female PM (hate Thatcher though I do, she should be respected on her merits) and our current deputy PM (Nick Clegg) is openly atheist and nobody gives even the most remote of shits.

    You’re not entirely wrong on the dynamic of right and left being different for Europe (and even nation by nation) but I have to drive the point home that America does not represent those political movements properly after decades of cold war fear mongering and McCarthism.
    When people acknowledge that, rather than asserting that their NEW definitions are the “real” ones, we can get past it.
    Atm, we have right wing pundits making hay over Clinton denouncing identity politics, which were NEVER inherently left wing, while somehow forgetting that the southern strategy was just identity politics by another name.

  • David Gray

    Honestly, this is a none starter.
    Your medical care system is retarded.
    ACA is a right wing idea, and a MASSIVE compromise from the Dem’s who SHOULD have been fighting for single payer and an end to the hegemony of insurers.
    The US spends more on health care than ANY other nation and yet its people die from lack of care.
    Nobody should be happy with that.

    And cut the shit on “the birthers aren’t mainstream”
    yes. They were. Just like benghazi fear mongering was mainstream.
    Your OWN FUCKING NEWS CHANNELS gave these people air time.

    Did the Dem’s and their media outlets make hay from it?
    You bet your arse they did!
    Doesn’t magically fucking dispel reality.

    The difference with GG is they hold us accountable for things with ZERO proof, people that have NO wide support and there is NO alternative opinion.
    It’s a little different than right wingers crying because their most retarded politicians and celebrities are held up as examples.
    You want to know what would have been good for mainstream conservatism? Focusing on the words of John McCain and condemning the SHIT out of birthers.
    Damn few did.
    A LOT of crazies were allowed to talk about the Kenyan Muslim in the whitehouse without being called out on it. which is ALSO different, as GG DOES call people out for being retarded.

    Quit trying to paint the American right as completely fucking innocent. I (and the other GG “liberals”) have not excuse “our side” of this latest retardation.
    I’m calling it out, saying it’s bullshit and saying it doesn’t represent me.
    You’re doubling down and attacking the ACA because why? It was fucking magic?

  • theliberatorofbados

    Actually, someone that uses games to teach about business was talking about the Tea Party during the 2012 elections. He was basically saying the same thing you are, and was pointing out that it showed a sign of breakdown in the established political machines. You have the Tea Party fielding candidates to kick out the old political order. What I find interesting is that during the EU elections this year, UKIP and the other nationalist parties in Europe were being painted in the same light that the Tea Party was by the media….yet we saw these parties make sweeping victories across the board despite the media onslaught. Likewise we saw a similar meltdown of the media in regards to this week’s election results. However, the mainstream media today is pretty much irrelevant at this point. NYTs stocks are in the toilet while people flee the state (this is happening in Cali as well), so it shouldn’t be a shock that these sites are now becoming echo chambers that are out of touch with the majority of people.

    The real story here is that the voters are beginning to field their own candidates to flush the rot out of Washington so that we’ll have actual representatives for our interests in office. Likewise in Britain UKIP has been picking up momentum and finally got an MP into Parliament thanks to two defections from the Tories. So we’re clearly seeing the political machines in Britain/Europe breaking down now.

    Actually, while it’s been easy to kind of find more out about UKIP, is there any resource I could go to find out about the origins of the Tea Party and their goals and whatnot, I’m very interested to learn more about it.

  • midlandmillionairez

    I think it is much easier to have a female PM in a parliamentary system, since you are voting for the party, not the candidate. If that were the case Pelosi could have been our prime minister/president.

    France also has a direct election, and they didn’t vote for Segolene Royal.

    Another difference is the urban/rural split, the UK is extraordinarily densely populated, while the US is not. “Red state” and “blue state” is largely an urban/rural split, conservative, rural areas of California and Washington state even want to form their own states. Russia also has a lot of social conservatism, probably this is due to sheer size. Canada and Australia are also large, but no one lives in the interiors of those countries.

    Cities such as Portland, San Francisco Seattle etc. are extremely to the “left”, even by European standards I think.

    And NYC and London probably have similar politics, wealthy liberals and left-wing ethnic enclaves coexisting w/ crucially important banking/financial sectors.

  • David Gray

    I think that is a mostly fair analysis.
    The system is certainly an extremely important element, and I personally (mostly) like a parliamentary system.

  • Another Loser

    Wow, it seems that for every reasonable person in Gamergate I talk to, I run into one of these “Cultural marxist conspiracy!” loons, this one suggesting that Christian moral absolutism is preferable to progressive moral absolutism. It’s amazing how quickly red-baiting can degrade a conversation.

  • phone2000

    I am in the TP and work for them..they ONLY stand for going back to constitution…balanced budget and term limits…SHRINK the fed gov…they are NOT nutjobs…establishment media portrays this because they are a grassroots movement…no real leaders…and are a danger to the status quo politicans who have sold their souls to Satan for power…new world order politicans…they are on boths sides….democrat party will split as well…

  • phone2000

    the founding fathers made the states sovereign…the federal government’s job is foreign policy and uniting the states….NOT interfering with private business or religions…or sports teams names or issues of birth control or mandating healthcare insurance or making school curriculim….and all the other crap they have been doing….the founding fathers would be baffled by the left’s commercials in CO …telling people to vote democrat or the state would run out of condoms….I wish I was joking but this ad actually came out…..unbelievable……

  • phone2000

    it’s heating back up…Obama’s new attorney general is a new world order bitch from the federal reserve…they want to jack with the voting systems so they are still going on and on about voter IDs…they do not want to lose the cemetary vote….or the illegal alien vote…they are bringing in lots of illegals and pushing for amnesty so they can get Hillary in………..

  • Liberius

    Finding resources is pretty hard, everything you can find is going to be biased in one way or the other. The movement was born out of Republican disillusionment with the Bush administration. A lot of people turned to Reagan, Lincoln, and the Founding Fathers to discover what it is that we were missing.

    So what turned a bunch of quiet Republican dissidents into an energetic political movement? A guy by the name of Rick Santelli, who quite accidentally started a snowball down the mountain. He’s a news anchor who went on a rant, on the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, denouncing the then-new Stimulus policy and calling for a “Chicago Tea Party”. Suddenly we had a name, and our moment had arrived. The movement itself was born on message boards across the internet within an hour of the rant. I was there.

    Various grassroots organizations sprang up, some legit, some crooked. Various astroturf organizations decided that they could ride the wave of this new craze. For a while, it looked like we were on a serious path to reforming the Republican party from within. We ran into two problems: The first was a media infested with leftist Social Justice Warriors who set out from the outset to cast us in a negative light (Tina Fey’s Palin impresions, plotlines about right-wing terrorists becoming big, unfavorable news coverage). The second was corrupt Republicans who teamed up with the media to save their careers, afraid of the scrutiny that they were suddenly getting. After a campaign of hardcore vilification, we stopped receiving any coverage at all. Even rallies of thousands don’t even make local news anymore.

    So what’s our goal? To reduce the Federal government to clearly authorized Constitutional powers only, with respect to the 10th Amendment. A lean top-level federal system that mostly handles non-social issues like the military, legal system, interstate highway system, foreign policy, and currency. Social issues would be properly decided at the state level. California and Texas could be as different as we want to be, without one state having to dominate the other to get its way. More freedom, what’s not to love?

  • me

    The left has become “the man”. It used to be the left media against the right-wing institution….but now both are left and they have totalitarian hold over the country. I knew GamerGate would bring this to light

  • Doctor Mayhem

    You must’ve not noticed the sarcastic quotes.

  • Winston

    Oh I don’t know. Like if you like your plan you can keep it. Or that it was not a tax. Or that it would lower costs. Or that it would improve healthcare. Or that it would not harm small businesses and hurt employment and wages. Or that it would decrease red tape. Or that it would cure the problem of the uninsured. And single payer works brilliantly exactly no where. But what’s experience weighed against ideological faith?.

    You think that Obama’s presidency has been normal? The destroying of filibuster rules is normal? The hyperpartisanship? Your delusions are remarkable. How many bills came out of the House that Reid prevented from even coming to a vote? Hundreds. When has a piece of legislation like Obamacare ever passed on a party line vote? When has Obama ever compromised? Even Chris Mathews noticed that he basically tells half the country to drop dead. You do not scorch the earth and then when it comes back to bite you, start talking about compromise.

    But the stimulous is always my favorite. We spent a billion and none of the projected improvements occur. So are we chastened, cautioned, anything? Hell no! We then insist that we need two billion. The only thing stimulated was the debt.

    Obama is one of the worst presidents in decades. He is a sorry combination of Nixon and Carter. You talk about gridlock and yet cannot see that Obama never listens. He is gridlock personified, a callow, narcissistic, incompetent fool. Even his reaction to this election was to give the voters the middle finger. I come from the center of the blue state universe and people are done with the mythology and excuses.

    So go with “it’s all the Republican’s fault.” Obama is a failure. Your party is a failure.

    Now let’s tie it all together. This article is about the tendency of Democrats not to listen, not to appreciate contrary viewpoints and arguments, to demonize and shut off disagreement. And you still are too obtuse to get it. Here you are again blaming and making lame excuses. It cannot possibly be that the voters think your precious party stinks and are sick of what is going on? And they cannot possibly have a valid point of view? That in a nutshull is what the Democrats have degenerated into. And so it sinks into the mire, willfully blind.

    Have any last word you please.

  • karmashock

    We’re not though. There is no american right wing movement in the European sense of the word.

    There is an american right but what that means is distinct to our political environment.

    The European right for example historically favored kings, lords, and various anti democratic processes.

    The american right by contrast favors constitutional values of our republic.

    A more accurate set of terms would be conservative versus socialist. That is quite literally the conflict in the United States.

    We have people in the republican party that favor constitutional values which are as democratic as anything you’ll find anywhere in the world. And opposing them are people that want to change American society to be more socialist. That means more social programs, less capitalism, more state control of everything, higher taxes, less market influence of anything, etc.

    That is the conflict.

    Right versus left is not a translatable political concept from America to Europe.

    Rather it is various types of conservatives that wish the society to remain truer to its constitutional roots versus socialists that find such policies to be a barrier to their ideal society.

    If you look at america and see the European right, then you don’t see us at all.

  • karmashock

    Explain what right wing means to you? Because I am unsure of what that term contains.

    Are they less socialist then many europeans? Sure… is that what left wing means to you? Socialist?

  • karmashock

    It was the declaration of switching factions that brought people out. This article was linked widely throughout the political blogs.

  • JoeStork

    “Oh I don’t know. Like if you like your plan you can keep it.”

    Ok, that’s fair, though the plans were canceled because they didn’t meet standards of quality. Still, he definitely shouldn’t have said that.

    “Or that it
    was not a tax.” Ehh, don’t really care about this.

    “Or that it would lower costs.” It does appear to have slowed the rising costs of healthcare.

    “Or that it would improve
    healthcare.” It hasn’t been in effect too long but more people are getting healthcare and I’ve seen no reports of quality declining.

    “Or that it would not harm small businesses and hurt
    employment and wages.” I’m sure you can find a few examples, but I don’t think there’s any widespread evidence of this.

    “Or that it would decrease red tape.” I have no idea how you measure “red tape” and I don’t think you do either.

    “Or that it
    would cure the problem of the uninsured.” There are fewer uninsured, there would be even fewer if Republican governors would accept Medicaid expansion.

    Most economists will tell you that the stimulus did a fair amount of good, with some waste. A third of it was tax cuts, which aren’t the best stimulus in terms of bang for your buck. They will also tell you that a larger stimulus would likely have been more effective.

    The destroying of filibuster rules came after 5 years of record-setting use of the filibuster by Republicans. Context matters.

    “How many bills came out of the House that Reid prevented from even coming to a vote? Hundreds.” How many of these were attempts to repeal Obamacare? It’s political theater. You should be angry about the time wasted on symbolic bills.

    You do realize that I don’t like the Democratic Party, right? Obama has generally been a disappointment to me. But his opponents have been blinded by hatred of Obama and have made a joke of the term “loyal opposition.”

  • Gina

    The government’s ruining the health care industry, quick, let’s give them more power over it! I think NOT.

    Look, I’ve lived under socialized medicine, I know it’s not all it’s cracked up to be, just as the US health care system is not the bag of horrors the media paints it to be out of their social advocacy. We’re going to have a mixed system and all the ACA did was fuck things up for a lot of people. It’s about to be gutted, thank god. Maybe then we can find incremental solutions to actual problems instead of this bullshit intended to pave the way to single payer.

    If you want to insist that something that’s a blatant lie is true (birthers are mainstream), then we don’t have anything more to discuss. Benghazi is a whole different ballgame. Our government allowing foreign service workers to die unprotected and unaided, by goons using arms that we ourselves supplied a few months prior, absolutely should have been front page news. The only scandal about the reporting of it is that the regular media carried water for Obama and Clinton on it- which isn’t news.

  • theliberatorofbados

    Yeah, I used to be left-leaning when I was younger, but over the years I’ve gradually realized that I’m more conservative in terms of values (not necessarily Republican cuz a big reason the Tea Party exists is because the Repubs aren’t being conservative when they say they are). But in recent years especially it sinks in how crazy out of touch the Left is. It seems instead of standing for any kind of principals they are more interested in pandering to voters, and using Political Correctness to try and shut down any kind of debate about serious issues in our country. However, this past Tuesday seems to have shown us this has exploded in their faces, badly.

  • theliberatorofbados

    It ain’t just in the US that this is happening. Look at what happened in Britain earlier this year….

  • Hey Todd,

    Consider who has lied about gamers. Consider who has told you how to vote and what to think your entire life. They lie about us too. Sometimes the truth is painful.

    Welcome to the real world, friend.

  • EscapeVelocity

    The Chinese arent gonna keep lending us money to pay for Medicaid, Im afraid, JoeStork.

  • JoeStork

    You know that the deficit is shrinking, right?

  • David Gray

    You are ridiculous.
    You cant even admit that the birthers were not widely denounced, they were allowed to function as normal and be featured alongside “moderates”
    The ONLY Republican I know with the balls to speak out against that shit was McCain, and he got full respect for it.

    You just go right on excusing the right wing for their bullshit.
    I’m sure Fox NEVER plays for team republican… right?
    You are ridiculous, much like the SJW you think you’re nothing like.
    You’re the exact same problem on different sides.

  • David Gray

    Liberal is certainly not limited to, or defined by the left wing…
    Liberalism is centrist, pure and simple.
    Any other interpretation is just politicking for ideological reasons.

  • David Gray

    And your strawman of liberal politics in America, and left wing politics everywhere else, is FAR more blind.

    Your right wing are supporting robber barons and inherited dynasties just as much as the traditional European right wing did.
    They just aren’t called monarchs any more.

    What’s the difference between a Walton inheriting and a King in England inheriting?
    The Walton is getting money Daddy earned, but the monarch is getting the rank, privileges and responsibilities won by his fathers fathers father many times removed. I’d say at least monarchs have a sense of civic duty…
    You guys just fool yourself into thinking that the richest demographic of human in history (the modern industrialist) is somehow less powerful, influential or privileged than the original aristocracy.
    Because reasons.

  • Brad

    “New and better information”? From one source, which during my readthrough is based on opinions which fly in the face of fact, and assume that the FACT and HISTORY based scientists are all just demonizing the church because.. they hate it? Despite the fact that that very article describes how many of them belonged to said church?

    This is where I pat you on the head and walk away. Keep pretending your invisible friend and his mafia are the truth.

  • karmashock

    As to our right wing protecting dynasties… you can find that on both sides of the political spectrum including in europe. So that’s a meaningless charge. Your notion of right and left can’t refer to any existing major political party anywhere if you think that is a policy shared by any of them. They all have their elites that make sure they get protected.

    I am not stupid. Please do not play stupid games with me.

    As to strawmanning… you’ll have to justify that statement for me to take the claim seriously. Baseless accusations are countered with baseless rebuttals. They’re meaningless. Please cite where I strawmanned please.

    As to money earned and then inherited, you seem to be against the very concept of property rights themselves. If that is the case, give me your car right now. Give me your home. Give me your shoes.

    Why are you entitled to your shoes and someone else isn’t entitled to a family business? In any case, you’re showing that you’re apparently some flavor of communist. Which doesn’t put you to the left of America… communism shares more in common with fascism then anything else. You presume to dictate by force and centralize everything.

    In any case, politics are too complicated to simplify to a one dimensional attribute of right or left. And what is more, the very concept of right and left has no meaning in the United States using the european standard for those terms.

    All major US political movements are liberals.

    With the possible exception of some segments of the democratic party that are actually some flavor of communist fascists.

    That is the only thing US politics has in common with europe… we do have people like you over here. We’re just better at containing their various attempts take away our civil rights.

    Who is burning books in this era? Radical leftists more then anything.

    Congratulations. You are everything you hate.

  • karmashock

    You can’t define an ideology by saying it is “centrist, pure, and simple” That is like saying “Christianity is good and everything else is evil.”

    That’s a definition that does more to confess your own bias then it does to actually explain anything.

    All you really said here is “I am massively in the tank for this ideology”… I didn’t question that point. I rather questioned what that ideology actually means and I want you to define it.

    In all frankness, I suspect you of being an intellectual lightweight and unable to really substantiate your position if challenged. You run around trying to brow beat people with a belief system that I don’t think you even really understand.

    This annoys me. Mostly because I think people should know what they’re talking about before they presume to advocate their beliefs.

    You’re like those Christians that don’t read the bible but presume to tell other people what a good religion it is and that other people should read it. It is absurd.

    Now, I was frank there because I believe in honesty. Am I wrong? Those were simply my impressions and I didn’t intend to offend you with it. But you don’t seem to hold your ground on any issue. You run into a thread, pop off some baseless comments, and then run away. That appears to be the behavior of someone that is afraid to or unable to sustain criticism.

    Prove me wrong and accept the challenge.

  • FRED C. DOBBS

    everybody listen to Michael Savage, he’s the best talk show host

  • Rkd

    I use to be on the soft left when I was younger. I basically viewed conservatives as hypocritical jesus freaks that weren’t very intelligent, those conservatives do exist I admit but it is a very unfair generalization. The people that really always worried me however were the people that I thought espoused the same beliefs that I did though. The way that certain people I respected and admired would take certain beliefs to unacceptable illiberal extremes, the core of my beliefs has always been liberty, free speech, freedom of association and tolerance and respect for different opinions, and I couldn’t understand what they were seeing that I wasn’t..

    Eventually, over certain issues that I thought the paramount principles of liberty were at stake, freedom of speech on campus particularly, the only people that I found eschewing points of view over these matters that I could sympathise with were conservatives/libertarians. Overtime, I started taking conservatives and libertarians more seriously and when I actually got round to reading the works of serious right wing academics like Friedman, Sowell, Charles Murray and Niall Ferguson, I realised that they were just as interested and dedicated to coming up with answers to the problems I thought were important and importantly had the same core beliefs as I did and always respected them.

    Nowadays I would consider myself solidly conservative and really doubt I will ever return to the left. For those of you that feel disillusioned with the left and feel that left wing journals deliberately lied about your positions and used nothing but smears against you during GG, then I suggest that you read up on what the right really believes, there logic and evidence for those beliefs and then I am sure you will find that Left wing media runs on little else but smears.

  • medic5392

    Free Speech does not mean you have the right not to be offended, so you can keep your hate speech laws as they have been abused already. The fact that you can be taken to court for writing or speaking out against a group or ideal is counter-productive to the ideal of free speech. Thinking that because you do not disagree with what is considered hate speech today won’t change down the road when power changes is naive at best and is not supported by history.

    I will stick with our Bill of Rights over anything else out there, it is not perfect, but nothing better has come along yet.

  • medic5392

    Ghettos? I have been to the UK, London and many of your middle class areas are far worse than anything I have seen in NYC or LA.

    Homophobia? Actually, the libertarians and many others have been pushing for an end to this discrimination for a long time and so called hate crimes in relation to our population are tiny.

    Racism? Here there is a bit of truth to that, it is a bit worse here, but I would add that we are also a very different country than the UK. We have always been an immigration nation and the problem at times is that the new wave of immigrants are a threat to the recently established groups and this does breed resentment. It has been going on forever, from the Irish in the mid-1800’s to the Hispanic waves now. Add in the history of racism with the black community and I cannot argue with this point. I will say that it is getting better, but multiculturalism is not helpful in this area, I think it is divisive and we need to be to taught the old idea of a “melting pot” over this silly ideal of a “tossed salad”.

    Gun Crimes? Suicides are the overwhelming majority of gun deaths in the US, the rest are mostly related to the drug trade either directly or indirectly. End the drug prohibition and you end the majority of gun deaths. Even without ending that though I would take the 10k deaths a year in a nation of approx 325,000,000 in exchange for having the ability to own a firearm and shoot, hunt or protect my home and self if needed. The right to self-defense here is vastly different than in the UK and I prefer our view again over yours. To some it might be a heavy cost “I pay it gladly”. 😉

  • Markus9343

    This is demonstrable of a trend which is well recorded in American history. In the history of America we can observe liberal uprisings and conservative backlashes in tandem with one another going back centuries. It is well established that at a certain point liberal interests will increase in popularity as the nation attempts to move forwards, however, it is also established that the liberal views become too radicalized for the public interest and as such a conservative backlash becomes popular. This continues until the backlash becomes too conservative and the nation once again moves towards liberalism. You shouldn’t feel ashamed we are just reaching that point where liberal interests are becoming radicalized and are shunted out by the disgruntled populace.

  • medic5392

    Canada has similar laws and believe it or not even a novel can be taken to court (Human Rights) if it is critical of a race, creed, gender, religion, etc….

  • Gina

    And you’re just not very well informed. The only ones, and I do mean only, who gave the birthers any attention was the mainstream media, who stoked it as clickbait and in order to paint conservatives as loons. Obama’s secrecy about his academic records is a legitimate story, but National Review, Weekly Standard, RealClearPolitics, American Spectator, the national GOP committee itself… all the mainstream conservative outlets gave the birth certificate issue no credence and criticized those who were pushing it.

    All this aside from the fact that it’s the very least important issue you could be raging about.

  • medic5392

    That is a common theme by the left that the “religious right” will force me to do “XYZ”. Like what? Really, outside of abortion restrictions there is nothing that they push that is either a priority or that has any hope of getting past someone paying it lip service. So what is it that you think that segment will push? Anything the Religious Right tries to do will be struck down by the courts, there is too much precedence for them to have any real power.

    The GOP is also far more protective of due process and individual rights than the left is, that is a return to their historical roots that I think is driven by the libertarian influence on the party that I hope continues and expands. The Dems expanded “The Patriot Act” in 2010 and the expansion of Title IX into essentially Kangaroo Courts at the colleges and the push for curtailment of speech on those same campuses is all driven by the left. I would suggest going to FIREs website to get more information on this, really interesting reads and cases.

    My only hope is that the GOP does not blow it, but the parties ideals are often not up to the reality due to the self-interest of those elected who have been their too long in my view.

  • medic5392

    To a point Sinbe I agree with you, but the Libertarians also are a bit naive that their pure model will work and that just is not supported by a thing we know as human nature.

    I share their views on checks on govt and as much individual freedom as possible, basically as long as your actions do not cause actual harm to others directly then it is allowed. The problem is that many libertarians also feel no obligation to the group as a whole and think of themselves as sovereign individuals who would be against that draft even in a time of crisis for as one example. Or think that beyond taxes they have no other local or national obligations. There is a problem with many in that party and I am a big reader and fan of places “Reason”, but when you read the comments section or even some of the writers articles I see serious problems with their views in a lot of areas.

  • Monkey For A Peerage

    A man was taken to court for singing the song kung fu fighting in the UK.

  • David

    Great article. Also a liberal and feel the same way. I’m not going to sit by and watch a new racist, sexist extremist group rise up in society. It’s insane.

    I just watched yesterday as a woman made a sexist comment about judging in the IGF was defended by game developers and the IGF itself. When confronted about the the comment, she didn’t clarify or apologize, she reiterated she was biased and everyone knows it, and proceeded to mock people who were upset with several tweets.

    The IGF rightly removed her from judging and they received backlash from developers and journalists who were friends with this person and probably shared the same sexist views. So the IGF backtracks and apologizes to the bigot and invites her back to judge. It doesn’t make any sense.

  • EuroMIX

    One of my bigger recent annoyances regarding UK politics was alternative voting (voting in order of preference) not being passed via a referendum. Granted it would have given the possibility for extremist parties to have a shot at being in office, but additional flexibility and freedom for UK voters would be worth it, especially so people could potentially target fringe parties that may share their own politics more closely without wasting a vote.

  • Gregg Braddoch

    lol, I applaud your decision, or at least the basis for it. In america all the true “liberals” that cared about civil rights and freedom are kept at bay by vocal “social justice” groups. lol, I dunno how many gamergaters are voters in the USA, but if the numbers are right, this could be a decent way to get these crazy extremists to start admitting they have been entirely unreasonable.

    But really, my person vote is usually with candidates that don’t run on promises of forcing other people to follow their moral values / ideological quirks. These days that is rather hard.

  • Gregg Braddoch

    “I may not agree with their policies in a lot of cases, but I won’t be taking the wanton smear campaigns against them at face value anymore.”

    Nice. The longer I live, the more I check into claims made by anyone about another group of people or individual. The way these crazy people get so much power is by convincing rational, reasonable people that the other side is ONLY made up of bad people by giving them labels, so it is ok to hate them, because we all hate ISIS and the Nazi’s and that is OK. These lies are convenient, but mostly transparent.

    All that said, this happens no matter who is voted in – if either major party gets too much control, it is a rollercoaster ride into whatever fringe extremism exists in the party, and lasts until that party is out of power – meanwhile, most people who just want to be free to live their lives, and others to be free to live their lives, get these nightmare scenarios, such as gamergate. (Although GG IMHO turned around the nightmare scenario, and most coverage by Anti-GG people is a joke where they hire people to comment on how true the articles are, lol)

  • WittyNameHere

    I want to say this article is exactly my experience and leave it at that… but I wont. I -can’t-.

    This has lead to a complete confrontation of my liberal ideas. Like you, I was a pretty unashamed liberal. Hell I took it a step forward and outright called myself a Social Democrat/”Socialist” to a degree.

    And then this shit happens. This shit, and I find out things like JournoList happened to, in spite of not being told -once- by the “liberal media” outlets I watched that it did. I began to question everything, to the point that I even looked at the Republican Party platform in my state.

    …And you know what, I found myself agreeing with a few points, at least economically. My grandparents were republicans so, it’s not like it would be going -entirely- against my upbringing. But still… you know, when I heard Republicans talk about “Freedom”, I always used to mock it. Used to tell them (and myself) that the “revolutionary war” was over, that ranting about freedom is like demanding payback for the War of 1812…

    Given all this shit, I’ve got to wonder if -this- was the kind of stuff they were talking about. I took a political test again recently. This shot me all the way towards “moderate libertarian”. I voted mostly Republican this election, despite my state being as blue as blue can be…

    I only hope this was all worth it, in the end.

  • Gregg Braddoch

    ^This is one of the best summaries of this problem ever.

  • Gregg Braddoch

    A simpler way of saying it is: Religious people will advocate/push following their values to everyone, including themselves – SJWs will advocate/push following their values to everyone, excepting themselves.

  • Ginpeporimeg

    Sssoooooo…it was a well executed plan to win some elections?

  • Ginpeporimeg

    I thought of myself as being left for a long time, then I realize that a lot of my own opinions were right. I still consider myself left because the figure heads and ideas of the rights in politics today are really outrageous (the old Southern Democratic party that Republicans absorbed as reference)

  • Gregg Braddoch

    Lets not pretend that extremists on the far right wouldn’t use hate speech laws to force their will on people – The general problem of hate speech laws is that they protect only those in power, of whatever ideology.

    Canada had to dial back it’s hate-speech law, because it covered not only real threats against people, but also anything that was offensive to anyone else. Apparently it got majorly abused (go figure, right?)

    http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/06/27/hate-speech-no-longer-part-of-canadas-human-rights-act/

  • Jay

    “I’m sorry, are you using stratified aristocratic societies as models of egalitarianism?”

    No, but it seems that you don’t understand the different types of ways that people organize and continue to insist on a few falsities.

    “I’m not against cooperative, voluntary arrangements, but these will only ever be on a small scale, and have negligible impact on large economies.”

    Again, you’re shooting the forest for the trees. Society has organized in various different methods and it creates its critics of the system as well as supporters. Just as slavery created supporters and detractors so to has capitalism.

    “Feudalism died away, as most systems do, on the bloody end of a pike. You can’t simultaneously assert utopianism and pacifism.”

    Uhhhmmmm… No? This ignores that the experience of Europe with a long tradition of feudalism gave rise to a more social democratic, government controlled system while the US, with a labor shortage for ~ 250 years created a more “pure” capitalism where the wages of workers grew until the 70s.

    And no one is asserting utopianism or pacifism. Socialism is nothing more than workers owning the means of production. I have no idea why you bring pacifism into the argument when it has nothing to do with the organization of societies.

  • Jay

    “Which you’re only ever going to do using jackboot tactics. ”

    Nice assertion. Proof?

    “The reason people conflate those terms is because in the end, all authoritarians start to look alike.”

    Or maybe because people are hiding their own imperialism and can’t think outside of that conflation…

  • Jay

    … You might want to look up what a democracy is. All you’ve claimed is imperialism is the only thing to work and that’s just…

    Wow…

  • Gina

    “Uhhhmmmm… No? This ignores that the experience of Europe with a long
    tradition of feudalism gave rise to a more social democratic, government
    controlled system while the US, with a labor shortage for ~ 250 years
    created a more “pure” capitalism where the wages of workers grew until
    the 70s.”

    You’re ignoring history. Late medieval/ early modern European history is incredibly bloody. The modern state didn’t just “arise,” it was wrenched out of absolutist monarchies.

    I mention pacifism because you seem unable to admit that the large-scale economic upheaval you’re talking about can only come about by force.

  • Gina

    “Nice assertion. Proof?”

    Common sense and history.

  • CruisingTroll

    I strongly suggest you look deeper into this Republican absorption of the “old Southern Democratic Party” You’ll find that like so much else you’ve learned from the Left, it just ain’t so. The old Southern Democrats stayed with the Democrats, the folks who wanted no part of the poverty plantation, whether as fieldhands or overseers, left the Democrats. Some went libertarian, some Republican, some just left politics. Just look at how quickly the Republicans took over southern legislatures. It took them less than 10 years from Nixon’s “Southern Strategy” to convince all those old Southern Democrats to join ’em. Oh, my bad. It took more than 40 years…. until those “old Southern Democrats” died off in sufficient numbers, before the Republicans got control.

  • CruisingTroll

    Rousseau is undoubtedly laughing from his gaol in Hell. It should be noted that the only reason most are “gaping in horror” is because THEY aren’t riding the groupthink beast, and have the niggling fear that maybe, just possibly, it will turn on them. Not because they think there’s anything fundamentally wrong with a groupthink beast.

  • Jay

    That seems to be against you when you ignore information that doesn’t confirm your bias.

  • Jay

    “You’re ignoring history. Late medieval/ early modern European history is incredibly bloody. ”

    That still doesn’t change the type of economy in place which was feudalism. Why does history being bloody have anything to do with understanding different economic systems?

    ” The modern state didn’t just “arise,” it was wrenched out of absolutist monarchies.”

    Hence my point that feudalism gave way to capitalism…

    “I mention pacifism because you seem unable to admit that the large-scale economic upheaval you’re talking about can only come about by force.”

    If you say so. It’s going to come about when a critical mass of people reject capitalism as was done with slavery and feudalism before it. That’s really all I’m saying about that. I have no idea why force is such a predominant obsession with you, but it doesn’t change history or the points I’ve made already.

  • Nik NYC

    Another nerd community turned partisan was is STEM major climate alarm skeptics. The Republican landslide means the war is mostly won now, after Canada, Australia, India and half of Britain had already succumbed to Reason. It was Gore calling these guys “flat earthers” that helped so much:
    http://s4.postimg.org/z7o45ugvx/image.jpg

    #GamerGate is icing on the cake for long smeared skeptics.

  • Brian Schreck

    I don’t understand your logic, some girls said calling yourself a gamer is stupid, so now you vote republican? They aren’t passing laws to prevent games from being made, or banning anything, they are just stating an opinion. I don’t see the connection.

  • Welcome ScrewMadd. Many years ago, that’s how I started on my path away from the Left. …One too many lies.

  • jambi19

    What stances does the right take with the internet exactly that are silly? The right actually is against the leftist government takeover of the internet via “net neutrality”. Google Ted Cruz and you will see leftist media demonizing him for being “stupid and standing against net neutrality.” I don’t understand why media keeps telling me that if I don’t support government censorship of the internet I am “supporting the 1%.” Just look at leftist China…they have outlawed google and apple (or at least censored both significantly).

  • Zython

    What do you have to be ashamed of? You wanted to punish women for having agency, and you got it.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/08/opinion/pregnant-and-no-civil-rights.html?_r=1

  • reflecttcelfer

    So this is just another, particularly long-winded way of saying “I was [insert group name here] until I thought people were mean, and now they have to prostrate before me or else I’ll vote Republican, right up until the Republicans are mean, at which point I’ll become yet another Internet Libertarian.”

  • karmashock

    No reply?

  • Jonathan Roberts

    Agreed Olympion, they are so blind in their self-righteous, they dont even see that all they do is promote segregation.

  • MKUltra

    Todd Wohling,the liberal left is never going to “win you back”, they are full of delusional idiots who think that genociding straight,white,males is the way towards “progress” and “evolution”. When they use those words, what they are referring to is a strategy whereby they will effect the racial miscegenation out of existence of every white male in America, and also in Britain,Germany, and all other “liberal democracies”.

    They will never go back to working class politics,”looking after the little guy”,etc, because to them you’re a scumbag. They told you what they think of you. They think you’re a scumbag who needs to die, and they mean that literally. What they are after is genocide.

    When they cement their hold over anything, they declare that there is “no place” for someone like you in it. No place in politics for you to secure or pursue your own interests, no place in corporations for people with your genital configuration and sexual identity, no place in schools to give your ideas a fair shake,and now, no place in games for you to have a refuge from their relentless identity politics.

    The UN Convention on Genocide states that deliberately inflicting upon ANY group, racial or religious or ideological, “conditions calculated to bring about its destruction in whole OR IN PART”, is genocide.

    When they say you have no place,that’s genocide. Especially when it is enforced worldwide, and it is.

    Certain groups “have no place” (those whom leftists believe are “racist”,”ableist”,”sexist”,”anti-semitic”,”transphobic” or whatever “ism” they next decide to impose upon the world) in America,Canada,Australia,Britain,Germany,New Zealand,Ireland,Spain,Sweden,Denmark,Russia,France,Norway,Hungary,etc, simultaneously now. And it goes without saying that they have no place in Africa or Asia, or anywhere else in the inhabited world.

    Where are they going to go? How can they survive? They can’t.

    Where do they “have a place”? Nowhere.

    That’s genocide.

    Is “liberal democracy” worth committing genocide? Does the word “progress” really tickle you so much that it’s worth starving people to death for or beating them into submission because they defend themselves when people attack them?

    The left thinks so.

    The left thinks that genocide can be justified,but I don’t think it can. And furthermore, we BOTH know it isn’t “progress”. That’s how cavemen dealt with the intricacies of human existence-just kill the people that don’t look like you or act like you, or enslave them, make them second-class citizens or lesser men under the culture or under the law.

    And make no mistake, when the left wins the culture war, it will then impose its cultural views via the law.

    How’d you like to pay a tax for being a “white male” (any wayward jew,European white, or light-skinned mestizo with male genitalia)? Already in the pipeline.

    You’re right, this is a matter of your survival, but that’s actually much closer to the mark than you originally may have guessed.

    They fully intend to kill us,forcibly racially-mix us,or force us to leave the country entirely. And if we stay, we’ll be placed so low on the totem pole that they will create a second set of lesser rights and greater obligations,(likely this will come in the form of wealth confiscation at first, then military service and indentured servitude as the system becomes more morally degenerate) reserving the Bill of Rights for themselves. That is the endgame, that is what “progress” actually means to a leftist.

    They will never turn back from it,for any reason. They move in only one direction,towards destruction.

    My advice is if you don’t like what they’re doing, then fight them all,give no quarter to any of them, no matter how reasonably they try to sell you the “white male” genocide agenda,and keep on fighting until they stop twitching.

    As a dyed-in-the-wool leftist, you’re used to shouting people down. Put that training to use against them. They’ll probably pull your platform,saying that you have “no place” [doing X],and you’ll get a chance to see what the American Right must constantly contend with. You’ll either sink or swim depending on your resourcefulness and ability to accurately divine the motives and forecast the actions of your opponents.

    Call them on what they are, they are racists and sexists,they are insane, aggressive, and hegemonic,they are liars,manipulators,perverts,and deceivers,and they are backstabbing,two-faced,forked-tongued,traitorous,evil,demented control-freaks.

    You know what happened to you,but you’ll never get justice for you, things are too far gone. Once the kind of stability,brotherhood,and camaraderie that once prevailed in America before the new socialist left took the stage is gone, it doesn’t come back,sometimes for hundreds of years and sometimes never. That innocence is lost. The only thing you can do is do what you can to make sure that people LIKE you get justice and burn the asses of the people who want you dead via proxy. And there are plenty of people out there that need your help.This has been going on for 50 years or more.

    It may not bring back the universal belief that it’s ok to be who you are, even if that’s male or god forbid a white,but it will instill the idea in the collective hive-mind of the left that attacking people based on those characteristics is dangerous for them personally to do.

  • Good piece, I haven’t followed gamergate that closely, but it’s good to show people what goes on behind the “progressive, diversity, etc.” curtain. Basically if you’re white you can drop dead. The headcase leftists think they can maintain power without any white people voting for them, keep thinking that…

  • MKUltra

    Nope. You only notice it when they do it because the particular laws intrude,very mildly and unassumingly, on some aspect of your lifestyle, for instance, when they want to establish “marriage” as between a man or a woman, or think that abortion should not be used as a form of birth control now that women have over 16 different kinds that don’t involve stabbing a live baby in the neck with a pair of scissors and these were all cheaply and widely available before Obamacare or given out for free at clinics due to special initiatives just for women’s reproductive health and now they are even paid for directly by men’s tax money.

    Leftists want to make it illegal to call a jewish person a jew on Twitter. They have arrested 12 people for doing it using the British equivalent of the SWAT team to date.

    They have NOT sent armed police to arrest the Pakistani grooming gangs that raped over 1400 children in Rotherham,even though they know exactly who most of these rapists are.

    THAT’S intruding into social matters and establishing laws based on ideology. Giving people alternatives like civil unions and Plan B and saying “here use these instead or we’ll have to pray for you” doesn’t even touch it.

  • Gina

    It didn’t just “give way,” and there wasn’t a critical mass, there were bloody upheavals. Which gets back to my point that the kind of large societal change you’re talking about can only be imposed by the few on the many- the jackboots. /circle around to the beginning

  • Simon_in_London

    Interesting stuff. It seems that the Republicans possibly benefitted from GamerGate just by not doing anything. Politicians not doing anything is something of which I heartily applaud.
    The US Left follows what I think was Marcuse’s dictum, never to criticise those further to the Left. They tend strongly to shoal on social issues. Anti-GamerGate hysteria was supposed to motivate liberal to centrist white women to get out and vote anti-Republican, because gamers are supposed to be straight white men and Republicans are supposed to be straight white men. It was not a very credible strategy, I can’t see Boehner playing Call of Duty. It may have actually pushed more moderate games-playing folks (white, non-white, male & female) into voting against the Left, thus hurting the Democrats. I suspect the net effect was near zero, though.

  • Doc Sleepless

    lol white man betrays progress to maintain his privilege, news at 11.

  • SWulf

    This article expressed with laser sharp accuracy why, as a Left-leaning Libertarian, I will be voting Right.

    Thank you for giving a clear voice to what is in my heart.

    I bought into the “conservatives are evil misogynists” narrative, until #GamerGate where I witnessed, firsthand, the dishonest disgusting tactics of the so called social justice camp.

    It made me wonder what other lies have been told and broadcast by the mainstream media.

    I am not alone. I am a gamer. We are legion.

  • David Gray

    The projection here is amazing.
    The whole comment is “you’re wrong because you’re wrong” which is what you accuse me of doing…
    What is liberalism?
    Laisse Faire capitalism.
    Personal freedom.
    Secular.
    Think that is a fairly accurate basic description.
    Hell, most people ACKNOWLEDGE that liberalism is centrist, if not in words, by saying things like “socially liberal, fiscal conservative”
    Are you going to tell me that thinking people are people that should be free to do what they want is left wing?
    Because I’ll take that.
    But I think it’s a universal thing. A central position.

    Face it, the ONLY reason “liberal” came to mean “left” in America is because of the red scare.
    Every other fucking place on the planet, it is centrist, and normally more associated with the right (because capitalism) than the left (because nationalisation)

    You just content yourself with “if they don’t respond they must be scared” or some other nonsense, and steep yourself in more ridiculous propaganda.
    This isn’t even something to argue about.
    Libertarians and conservatives will talk about “classical liberalism”
    You know what that is?
    It’s liberalism.
    And yet it’s the “good” kind of liberalism, because they can take everything they like about it and pretend that modern liberals are fakes, and yet idiots like you will also swear that liberalism is left wing,
    Because who the fuck needs consistency or truth.
    People upvoting you should talk to some honest political science graduates, receive a smack to the back of the head and feel shame.

  • karmashock

    David, here are your options. You can make an effort to make some kind of sense like a rational adult… or I am going to have to assume you’re a crazy person.

    I am not asking for anything unreasonable. You’re going out of your way to say silly things which you don’t back up and when called on any of it you just evade and cloud the issue.

    Either engage like a rational person or I have to assume you’re not rational.

    Which is it? I am not strawmanning you or doing anything logically fallacious. I am asking you to define your position which is the BARE MINIMUM to have any kind of rational discussion about anything.

    You choose right now. Are you being misunderstood or are you a troll?

    Your move.

  • Nick

    Ted Cruz tried to compare Net Neutrality to ‘Obamacare’ which is a very odd thing to do. The issue is one of non-open internet. We already have providers locking down access to content depending on where you are accessing the internet from. Verizon does not allow mobile clients to use IRC, or various other services. Why this hasn’t been challenged sooner is bad, and the right seems to think that it’s ok to just let corporations do whatever they want and charge whatever they want for access to the internet.

    Net neutrality is a horrible term to use. It’s being used to define a different issue entirely now, than what it’s original intent was. Equal traffic != equal speed. Charging for differing speed hookups to me is a completely seperate issue than blocking content, or replacing it with your own. But the right seems to be content with allowing corporations to outright block content (Verizon already does).

  • David Gray


    Really.
    I’ma just facepalm and leave you to your political echochamber.

    You guys could capitalise on the Dem’s being complete morons, but I guess you’re so busy gloating you’re not gonna abandon the bullshit on your own side.
    You aren’t even addressing my comments, just issuing adhom like its fucking kryptonite

  • Joe Blow My Foe

    “Socialism” is why the red states take more tax dollars than they pay.

  • karmashock

    More that they have to be bribed more often to sign legislation they don’t like.

    Your senators and congressmen keep giving red states extra treats because you’re asking them to sign things they don’t want to sign. So they get extra goodies in return for not throwing a fit.

    Don’t like it? Rip up all the bills they didn’t like and take back the money and lower the taxes.

    See if the red states cry about it.

  • karmashock

    David, you had two options.

    1. Explain your position.

    2. Out yourself as an intellectual lightweight afraid to defend even the simplest position.

    You chose option 2.

    Your choice is noted. Thanks for playing.

  • Madatom

    i feel GG and fringe politics in general have clearly shown gaming has no political allies unless its directly harming someones political ideology

    left wings are being pushed out, so right wings are going to chime in and replace them, just like the left replaced the right before 2009

  • David Gray

    You have said nothing of substance this entire time, I have fully explained why liberalism is a centrist position, and you have simply disagreed, with no explanation.
    You are essentially so inept at debate you are relying on the creationist method of frame, obfuscate, challenge and reframe.
    If I’m an intellectual lightweight, you much be in zeroG.

    Honestly, I’m embarrassed for you.
    If I were that incredibly bad at framing my opinions I’d likely commit ritual seppuku.

  • Condorito Jones

    The fact that your progress is a lie is what’s causing people to have second thoughts. You don’t understand this which is why your side will keep on losing hearts and minds.

    Also, I will assume that any person that says the word “privilege” unironically is white, from the west coast and most likely a radical something. I might be wrong sometimes but my experiences have dictated I won’t be most of the time.

  • Dawn Blast

    Well Said. I am registered as a Dem but now adays I am pretty sure I’m voting for the republican candidate when the time comes.

  • Condorito Jones

    Try being called a harassing monster, a misogynist, worst than ISIS, a rapist and worse by the media you trusted and everyone who believe them for over 3 months for the sin of criticizing a bunch of mostly white, mostly male game journos.

    That can change your perspective.

  • Joe Blow My Foe

    If the red states seceded, with a few exceptions, like Texas with all its wealth, it would resemble an Eastern European country.

  • Jay

    Why in the hell are you so sophist in your weaseling?

    Feudalism turned into capitalism. I mean seriously, you’re being so pedantic, I’m wondering if you’re an SJW in disguise. The basic point is that 800 years of feudalism “GAVE WAY” to capitalism as barons lost power and mercantilists rose in power. All you’re doing is arguing something that I’ve already acknowledged and trying to strawman. Geez…

  • Jay

    … The Articles of Confederation called…

    They failed immensely.

  • Jay

    Shhhh….

    You’re filling the echo chamber with knowledge and they’re drowning…

  • Jay

    *facepalm*

    You’re supposed to vote for the POLICIES you support, not make it a moratorium of people you’re against.

    That only exacerbates the problems of bad policies from bad actors in this great distraction we call politics in America…

  • Jay

    If you follow politics at all, midterms usually go to the opposite party. There’s also a number of voter suppression states along with gerrymandering which destroyed a lot of voting drives.

    And if you haven’t been paying attention to the comments, there ARE people further left speaking out against liberals. Stop conflating people you don’t understand.

  • Jay

    The circle jerking in the comments are pretty damn sad too…

  • SWulf

    You’re right. In an ideal situation a vote for the policies I support would be the rational choice.

    What is the rational choice in politics when the side that claims to espouse the policies I support, in practice behave like insane totalitarians?

    The rational choice is to try to counterbalance their influence–apply a check to the imbalance, in a less than ideal situation.

    So this isn’t about making a statement. *facepalm* It’s about seeking a solution to the current situation.

    Your solution, according to your one-dimensional critique of my reasoning, is to stay with the camp that demonstrates to me their irrational behavior and abuse of power.

    Right. I don’t think I will follow your advice because “that only exacerbates the problems of bad policies from bad actors in this great distraction we call politics in America.”

    Please, sit down.

  • SWulf

    That is a blatant use of the No-True-Scotsman Fallacy.
    Please update your playbook with something other than propaganda tactics. It makes you appear weak-minded.

    You can thank radical liberals for my crash-course during the past two months, in identifying these ridiculous time-wasting “arguments”.

  • Simon_in_London

    “there ARE people further left speaking out against liberals” – But that fits with Marcuse’s dictum: never criticise those FURTHER TO THE LEFT.

  • Samuel Benjamin Busch

    I started on the left and even though I left it many years ago (I’m now libertarian), I find it very strange to look at the left from the outside.

    I still want to like and respect the left for the many things I believed it stood for, such as peace, freedom, tolerance and equality but from the outside looking in I just can’t see those qualities any more, either I was tricked and it never possessed them or something is very, very rotten in the left these days.

  • Niwjere

    As someone born in Indiana and currently living in Wisconsin, I object to this article. Wisconsin doesn’t have Hoosiers, it has Wisconsonites! Hoosiers are from Indiana, dammit!

  • There is more to political ideology than the left-right x axis. There is the Liberty-Authority y axis. People who are younger than the Baby Boom generation are more liberty oriented. Many are realizing that they were not really liberals, but libertarians.

  • Fatherless

    There’s no one to vote for if you at a left leaning man. You can expect any kind of safety net to be co opted by Feminists. Here’s on older article by Based Mom on the bailout.

    http://m.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/016/659dkrod.asp

  • punstress

    As a conservative, let me warn you that you’ll become just as annoyed and fed up with the Republican leadership as you did with the folks on the left. Unfortunately, there is probably never going to be even one politician on any side whom you can agree with or count on consistently, much less a party.

  • Whatdoyouthink

    No, that’s not what I wrote at all.

  • OS-Q

    The writer of the “Communist Manifesto” would be awfully surprised if you told him he wasn’t a Communist or a Socialist.

  • karmashock

    Actually not. There was an analysis lately that showed that if the UK were a US state it would be one of our poorer states. Do you consider the UK to be a poor country?

    What seceding state would be is minor powers in line with Portugal or something. Irrelevant on the international stage. But that is a relative scale based almost entirely on the fact that we have super powers and everyone else. Seceding from the US would create smaller nations of less relative significance to geo politics. However, those powers might themselves be entirely content, healthy, prosperous, and stable within their own context.

  • Whatdoyouthink

    Yes, it’s true. What you’ve described happened to me for no reason whatsoever when i was 20. Sort of like when the detective dropped his coffee cup on the movie Usual Suspects.

  • karmashock

    You have not explained what liberalism even is in the first place and therefore are incapable of claiming that you have explained why it is a prominent view… something which you also have not done in your discussions with me.

    You can either accept very simple and minimal challenges that anyone with any intellectual credibility will meet effortlessly.. or you can continue with these evasions that do nothing more then label yourself as a troll.

    The choice is yours.
    You will make it one way or the other.
    And it will be noted.

    I have given you ever opportunity to redeem yourself. All you have to do is simply explain your position and define your most basic terms. Utter child’s play. If you can’t do even this then you have no claim to sit at any table without a pacifier in your mouth.

    Your move.

  • Whatdoyouthink

    Tipper Gore smashed heavy metal and rap records and now her husband is a AGW fearmonger.

  • Gregg Braddoch

    I’m curious as to what you find to be the difference in what I said vs what you said. Essentially I’m asking for more context, so I can understand what you said.

    Please note, that my statement is a paraphrase, and need not be exactly what you said, as it reflects my opinions as well.

  • whatdoyouthink

    It would be very nice if SJW were as toothless as evangelicals. It would be nice if SJW had any values similar to them. SJW have no values except gaining power and exerting power over you. The evangelical relies on their individuality and conscience and the SJW must crush this individuality of conscience and impose their will over them. The SJW is currently attacking Christian small business owners in the US.

  • whatdoyouthink

    Al Gore SR was a strict segregationist who fought and fought against the civil rights laws.

  • Bitterbear

    You forgot to add Ars Technica to the list.

  • whatdoyouthink

    So you will leave the GG and then say GG “switched sides.” 😉

  • ChopperDave

    These past few months have made me feel similarly, Todd. I’ve never voted Right in my entire life (both of my parents are Liberals, lived in blue states most of my life) and I’ll be voting either GOP or Libertarian henceforth. The talking points of the left over the course of the last few months and even preceding GamerGate were not the ones that originally drew me to Liberal politics during my teen years.

  • Todd Wohling

    I meant the movie Hoosiers. The gymnasium in the place we voted that first time reminded me very much of the gym in Hickory, Indiana. Hoosiers probably should have been italicized. Also, Wisconsin has Badgers. 😛
    TW

  • RockstarRepublic

    Welcome to the club Todd. Fun facts, Conservatives are also known as “classic liberals”, back in the day… libertarians were just liberals. In fact the term liberal has been hijacked, many who call themselves liberal do not espouse what it means… which is liberty. Liberty is the furthest you can get from authoritarian rule without going into total anarchy.

    I highly recommend reading the Kirk Center’s 10 Conservative Principles to better understand what defines the ideology. http://www.kirkcenter.org/index.php/detail/ten-conservative-principles/

    It has nothing to do with religion, it never has. Its been attacked in the same way GG has been attacked, with false labels and false narratives. There are also fake conservatives and libertarians in the party, they like to take the name without actually acting on the principle.

    Thus its up to us to continue holding both parties accountable and to work within the GOP to keep the bad ones out. We dont fall into the blind support category. Theres a bit of a civil war with the GOP right now, one that was just waiting to happen. Too many good people are not being represented properly, with the establishment acting more like progressives tied to their lobbyist than to the constituents they are supposed to represent.

    Its a good fight, one worth fighting for. The GOP has a rich history, from when it split from the anti-federalist democrat party in order to oppose slavery, to when it elected its first president (Abe Lincoln). It was the first party to overcome heavy democrat opposition to allow women to vote in both a statewide election and years later in national elections. It was the party that first pushed Civil Rights and the party that overcame a democrat lead filibuster of the Civil Rights Act. It was the party whose majority voted for the act, not against it. You wont hear this in class rooms or on college campuses…why? Doesnt fit the narrative. But the party has a rich and wonderful history, its worth fighting for and if gets taken over by bad people…we take it back in return.

    Heres a video worth watching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODJfwa9XKZQ

  • jjbees

    Long time liberal, voted in every presidential election, every midterm election since 1990.* Didn’t vote this year. They want to make me the bad guy? F*ck’em, I will be.

    Edit: *Voted for democrats, each and every office.

  • Fatherless

    Same here.

  • Fatherless

    True. We have two war parties, two big business parties, two big government parties, and two trample your civil liberties parties.

  • Niwjere

    One too many lies is how I left the right. Both sides use the same tactics — tribalistic adherence to an established narrative construct and complete inability to think outside that construct (see also: religious right, SJW left).

    How about we all simply agree that the extremists on both sides are the real enemy, and move forward with a little critical thinking?

  • Niwjere

    The “religious right” believes in individual freedom…the individual freedom to conform to their religious moral code(s).

    I grew up on the right. The right refused to let me be, in good conscience, a libertarian, with their censorious nonsense and moral panics, and now the left is trying the same thing. There is no personal freedom when authoritarians enforce their will on others, be they left authoritarians or right authoritarians. At this point, I’m just a libertarian — screw the “left” and “right” labels.

    The religious right and the SJW left are two sides of the same coin. Extremism of all political flavors is the real enemy. It’s time the libertarians on both sides of the fence sat down and had a nice long talk out of earshot of the authoritarian ideologues.

  • Fatherless

    If we could vote for policies on an individual basis, that would be pretty cool, but we have to settle for delegated representatives, who are organized into parties, which as often a not understanding who’s running a coalition and who is not.

    On the other hand, every time you choose to purchase a good or service, you are in a sense voting for the policy of producing that particular good or service, and there’s an infinite variety of ways to cast your votes in that system. Too bad we don’t all have the same number of votes, but at least the people who have the most votes also had to receive theost votes, I guess.

    Now if we used the first system to keep the second system honest, that would be pretty nifty.

  • “Tick tock. Tick tock.”

    Heard this while reading that:

  • I actually can’t agree. I started life as a journalist and much of that experience opened my eyes. While I disagree with many on the far right, I believe they are much more honest. That’s often why they get more vilification than the Left. The Left just simply doesn’t hold itself to any rules of honest negotiation or representation. For them, the ends justify the means. I’ve been in government and politics and seen it in action as a matter of course. I could write at length about this but I’ll just leave it with one other point…who has all the real power in the U.S…the cultural commanding heights? Hollywood, Academia, the Media? The Left tells our stories, writes our history and “interprets” what’s going on in our world.
    Also, I consider myself a very critical thinker. As I’ve gotten older though, I’ve come to realize that there’s no substitute for life experience.

  • Gina

    You denied, and are still denying, that this change didn’t come about peacefully. In fact it didn’t just “come about,” it was forced.

    Now shove your petty insults. This was tedious and pointless a long time ago.

  • Probably so. Many of them have longtime accounts, Chayma’s alts are all 90 iirc the gg wow thread, so as a longtimer she’d be aghast from seeing other 90s thrown out so willy-nilly. Self-preservation kicked in!

  • AnHumanBean

    I’ve been a registered independent for years, since I viewed the Democrats as spineless and the Republicans as soulless. Now I still view the Republicans as soulless defenders of American aristocracy, but the more identity politics becomes forefront to Democrats, the more I feel that I have to treat both sides as hostile to me and my way of thinking. One hates me because I’m not rich, the other hates me because I’m not a woman or a minority.

    I’ll be registering as part of the Pirate Party on my next trip to the DMV, and I encourage everyone else on here to send a message by finding a third party of your choice, recommending others to do the same, and putting some meaningful alternatives on our ballots. As scared as I am that the country will go back to the 1880s days of robber barons and child labor, I’m just as scared that I could someday have a son who’s viewed as society’s scum by merit of being a straight white male. I won’t stand for either.

  • Jonny Doe

    Welcome to the side of truth….despite what the liars say.

  • Gina

    I don’t understand the idea that Republicans are an aristocracy or made up of the rich when Wall Street, Silicon Valley, Redmond and all the blue, wealthy points in between lick Obama’s balls with gusto. The Rockefeller days are long gone.

  • Gina

    Blah, blah. If you don’t understand that people are rejecting your narrative and its paranoid premises, you need to rant less and listen more.

  • Brit Bong

    Always been left myself.
    Can’t bring myself to vote conservative.

    You’re right about the name calling etc, both the pleasant stuff from normal folk and the vicious stuff from the politicians (though they seem to see this as part of the game too in a way)

    As to the article, I do find myself been driven away from things I supported both financially and actively by current events.
    I supported those outlier games with only a message and an idea, kickstarter or by evangelizing them.
    Now I question whether I can really trust the developers of such games.
    The same can be said of other causes and measures to make gaming more inclusive.
    I find myself questioning the motives of the people behind these things and the articles reporting them, rather than just supporting them as I used to.

    Part of me wonders what the point is if I’ll always be the boogey man for being a self identifying gamer.
    Part of me wants to become that self fulfilling prophecy for them.

  • LanternFish

    “The conservatives are much more likely to establish law based on ideologies and intrude into social matters.”

    There is one political party telling people how big their sodas can be.
    There is one political party telling people how much gas their car can use.
    There is one political party telling people how much healthcare they are allowed to have.
    There is one political party telling people how much income is “enough”.
    There is one political party telling people how much they have to sell their labor for.
    There is one political party telling people what kind of light bulbs they can use.
    There is one political party telling buisness owners who they have to sell goods and services to.

    And guess what? It ain’t the conservative one.

  • EscapeVelocity

    The authors arent cherry picked. They arent attentions seeking Evangelical Atheists like Hitchens and Dawkins. They are serious hsitorians, academics dedicated to objectivity and thoroughness.

    Pick up some books from the library from the authors listed and inform yourself.

  • Zython

    Was something in my link false? Are you claiming that stuff never happened? If so, I’ll need some proof.

  • zj sky

    Except for david getting pwned here – beyond that, you are right.

  • Glitchus

    Democrats have “jumped the shark” (sorry) on the whole identity politics hate and scaremongering. They’ve done so because divisiveness is all they have to offer, as their leftist policies fail everywhere they’re tried, always resulting in totalitarian aristocracies.

  • Welcome to the dark side, darlin’! Glad to have you here…..

  • Finrod Felagund

    .. the red states take more tax dollars ..

    Common leftist myth. If you take out military spending (predominantly in red states because of geography), blue states get more federal tax dollars than do red states.

  • Finrod Felagund

    ACA is a right wing idea …

    I’m shocked you didn’t bring up the Heritage Foundation. Yes, they came up with something superficially similar to Obamacare years ago; it went nowhere in Congress because Republicans realized that it was both dumb and unconstitutional.

    If all Democrats have are recycled rejected Republican ideas, then they’re a lot worse off than I thought.

  • Finrod Felagund

    The Voting Rights Act section 2 that required the creation of ‘majority-minority’ districts made forced gerrymandering the law of the land. Democrats will never vote to change it because they will never do anything that would threaten their minority Congressmen. Republicans will never vote to change it because creating those districts forces so many Democrats into one district that the remaining districts all lean GOP.

  • Finrod Felagund

    (points and laughs) Look, another idiot leftist trying to put out a fire by pouring gasoline on it and then wondering why they’re on fire.

    Go back to your Community-Based Reality at places like Raw Story and leave the serious discussion here to people who haven’t knocked out all their teeth with leftist knee-jerk reactions.

  • Finrod Felagund

    Go back to Mother Jones, leftist.

  • Finrod Felagund

    I think it’s going to take longer than two years. Look at the Democratic caucuses in the House and the Senate– they elected as Minority Leaders Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, again. At least when Republicans get their hat handed to them in an election they try different leaders.

  • Finrod Felagund

    This is why I consider myself more on Team Red than a Republican. Half the Republicans and almost all the Democrats are worthless.

  • Brian Cotner

    Reminds me of this interview with Andrew Breitbart. http://youtu.be/0mTxpFIw-3g
    He was a liberal til the Clarence Thomas hearings showed him better.

  • No, the blue states would resemble an episode of “Walking Dead”

  • Joe Blow My Foe

    Dumbass, your state of Georgia would have been an agrarian shithole if it wasn’t for the federal government. Don’t act all high and mighty.

  • Bafnoch

    You need to submit your comment on this to the Democratic National Committee website. I have done the same.

    What’s been done over the past few months has been shameful.

  • Finrod Felagund

    Go fuck yourself with Biden’s cock, jackass.

  • DontWait

    But there really is a war on women. I don’t know who’s fighting it or what for, but it’s there. You just have to believe. Stop asking questions.

    Listen and believe…

  • How nice

  • utera

    Yep, I feel alienated from the left as well, I believe in freedom of speech and basically freedom of choice whether for abortion or guns or who to marry. But this new left seems to have taken classical values of progressives and thrown them out the door, becoming authoritarian and intolerant in nature to a degree where I just don’t recognize them anymore. Even twitter is now allowing feminists to silence their ideological enemies, its really gone off the rails, and I’ve watched the media behave as bad if not worse than the hated fox news people used to laugh at, now we realize they are all bad. And until the left reforms itself, I can’t give them my support with a clear conscience anymore.

  • utera

    Yea the “war on women” is just evidence of a new secular religion which worships women on the left. It pretty much explains their behavior which is no different than religious fundamentalism at this point.

  • Jay

    I didn’t deny anything. You just moved the goal posts to something the argument wasn’t even over.

    Now shove your petty nonsense and get back on topic.

  • Jay

    No, he wouldn’t. He wasn’t an idealogue as you implied and was a very devoted student of Smith and Ricardo who he held in great regards. He just didn’t like capitalism because of the contradictions he found within it.

    He was a critic of capitalism. That’s the issue most people ignore to create a strawman of a person.

  • Jay

    *sigh*

    Maybe it’s the voting system…

    Maybe it’s the fact that politics are controlled by the rich.

    Or maybe it’s an ignorance of how people are tuned out of politics.

    Either way, that Marcus’e dictum doesn’t seem to do anything to understand the reality of voting in the US.

  • OS-Q

    My impression is that Engels and Marx believed that capitalism would inevitably evolve into socialism, then communism. Did they not?

  • Jay

    “The rational choice is to try to counterbalance their influence–apply a check to the imbalance, in a less than ideal situation.”

    Congratulations on a false equivalency…

    “It’s about seeking a solution to the current situation.”

    Congratulations on ignoring the consequences of your actions and what they do…

    “Your solution, according to your one-dimensional critique of my reasoning, is to stay with the camp that demonstrates to me their irrational behavior and abuse of power.”

    No, you buffoon, I didn’t offer a solution and I don’t appreciate you thinking that my comment was supposed to BE one.

    But ignoring the real consequences of the One Party system we have in place will only make it worse. While there are other options, you ignored them to repeat a history repeated since the Great Depression. Again, congratulations. If you want to know what I would have suggested, the best thing would have been to ask me.

    ” I don’t think I will follow your advice because “that only exacerbates the problems of bad policies from bad actors in this great distraction we call politics in America.””

    Right. Because you’re such a master of long term politics, that you’ve looked at what conservative and neoliberal politics has done to the country and claim (falsely) that they’ll fix the economy and get people working.

    Meanwhile, the people losing jobs and housing, the problems of the banking industry without Glass Steagall, and even the bringing back of things such as the Treaty of Versailles in the Transpacific Partnership Agreement, which is mostly supported by the businesses and the rich, those are going to be policies supported by Republicans in full force.

    Please, sit down. Come back when you know what you’re talking about.

  • ChrisEstMonNom

    It’s fair to say a large part of the media left has gone literally insane and is motivated by pure hatred for pretty much everything and everybody. I can understand why you wouldn’t want to be associated with them.

    Irony is, I know for a fact 99% of them are more right-wing than I am.

  • Barbara Munsey

    wonderful article. I am a very nooby gamer (and senior citizen, and etc) who has been following this, and I cheer for the people who are not allowing the “SJW”s to roll them over.
    Best to you and all of the others who are fighting back against the gestapo of whiny masturbating toddlers who do not deserve to wear the label of a classical LIBERAL.
    Sometimes enough is enough, isn’t it?

  • SWulf

    “Congratulations on a false equivalency…”

    Okay. What are the alternatives that I overlooked here? If there are other options, what are they?

    “Congratulations on ignoring the consequences of your actions and what they do…”

    No, I don’t ignore the consequences, I embrace them because, for me, they are better than what is going on now. Although, given you have no idea what consequences I have considered, your statement is simply fluff.

    “No, you buffoon, I didn’t offer a solution and I don’t appreciate you thinking that my comment was supposed to BE one.”

    You didn’t advocate a choice? What was it, a plea for a reversal of my choice? Was is it a critique of my reasoning? An emotional reaction to the fear that so many, a vast group have made the same choice I have, and look to move in a direction with which you don’t agree? To what end, if not a critique of reasoning to influence a reversal of choice to your preferred rationale?

    What are the other options? Here is your chance to educate the buffoon. Many others are also listening.

    You are right. The same pattern has repeated over the course of political history. I wait patiently while you enlighten us on the solution to a problem gone unsolved for thousands of years.

    Just a note: the Transpacific Partnership Agreement leapfrogged a lot checks and balances thanks to President Obama’s influence with the help of a lot of Democrats.

    You deride my snark response to your condescending sneer, and my assumptions of your position while you snobbishly assert your superior political acumen and assume volumes about the depth of my political knowledge and involvement.

    Once again, you offer nothing but ridicule and self-righteous condemnation which seems to be a characteristic of the paradigm of today’s Left. Shout down and ridicule dissent rather than offer convincing arguments to win allies.

    You, Sir, are part of the reason the Left is going to lose a massive chunk of their voting block.

    Still feel like a winner?

  • Jay

    There’s a lot of arguments you’re missing here, but go ahead. What are you getting at?

  • OS-Q

    Wouldn’t that be like arguing that someone yelling about the second coming of Christ isn’t really a Christian? Or that Shia Islam isn’t Islam? To me it sounds like Freud’s “narcissism of small differences” at work.

  • Jay

    ” What are the alternatives that I overlooked here? If there are other options, what are they?”

    If we’re talking politics outside of gaming, I would argue that creating a new party is a choice along with forming up with other grassroots alternatives that advocate more for the working class. Takes longer, but how do you think unions, Socialists, and Communists worked to make FDR a popular president? It wasn’t because of his platform if you looked at how he was Obama before it was cool.

    Now let’s recognize something else. Conservative policies have been in effect before. Why would I believe that Republicans can do better when they have other priorities? Just consider that the conservatives ran all three branches in the 90s. Did that actually help at all? I highly doubt it. We saw Kuwait debacle, the lowering of taxes on the rich and the further deregulation of banking as just a few examples.

    So why make this a rebuking of liberal policies without ANY idea of what conservative policies have done?

    ” I embrace them because, for me, they are better than what is going on now.”

    The exacerbation of bad policies to watch the country burn doesn’t seem all that appealing to me…

    “You didn’t advocate a choice? ”

    Not a false balance one…

    ” What was it, a plea for a reversal of my choice?”

    Nope.

    ” Was is it a critique of my reasoning?”

    Yes.

    “An emotional reaction to the fear that so many, a vast group have made the same choice I have, and look to move in a direction with which you don’t agree?”

    If this were emotional, why am I backing up my arguments with history?

    You’re still free to go in any direction you want, I’m just amazed that so many make their choices based on emotion of the party they leave to another one just as bad. My own view is that we have one party with two heads but that’s another argument for another time.

    “What are the other options?”

    You asked that twice but a look back in history, particularly how most Americans dealt with a government that wouldn’t listen in the Great Depression can show how people can rise up and form their own groups to fight against such bad measures.

    “The same pattern has repeated over the course of political history. I wait patiently while you enlighten us on the solution to a problem gone unsolved for thousands of years.”

    Great hyperbole. The solution (arguably) is the capitalist system which your false balance ignores. Solving the problem in my view would be the elimination of a system which only supports the richest of us. But we’ve moved from different types of economic systems. The move from feudalism to capitalism occurred and we’ve only had this one for 300 years. Works decent, but it destroys itself in the end. Such is a Business Cycle.

    “Just a note: the Transpacific Partnership Agreement leapfrogged a lot checks and balances thanks to President Obama’s influence with the help of a lot of Democrats.”

    Actually, people like Mark Udall were trying to prevent its passing while Republicans in the House and Senate wanted to give Obama fast track powers. That still ignores the facts I’ve laid out that it’s a rendition of the Treaty of Versailles. Making this about the party in charge ignores the consequences of giving corporations more powers than the people the Senate or the House are supposed to serve.

    “You deride my snark response to your condescending sneer–”

    Of course. Where’s the fun in responding to hyperbole just as I receive it? 😉

    “my assumptions of your position while you snobbishly assert your superior political acumen and assume volumes about the depth of my political knowledge and involvement.”

    What you write is what I respond to. Nothing more or less. Golden rule: “Treat others the way you want to be treated”

    I don’t have the patience to claim elitism in any manner. Do I know some history? Sure. Have I been civil with you? Of course. You don’t want my snark? Quit the dismissive nonsense and I won’t respond in kind. That’s how an argument works. You want to show me your political knowledge or involvement? Go right ahead. But that’s not what makes my argument good or bad. What makes it a better one is if it responds to what you say and has sound logic and context to give you better information. Take them as you will. Do I think it’s wrong to just claim conservatism is A-OK after what it’s done to the country since Reagan? Of course. Does that automatically make liberalism better? No. And history tells us that this cycle is what people are tired of in the first place and why they tune out politics. It’s essentially become a Weapon of Mass Distraction for those disconnected from it.

    “Once again, you offer nothing but ridicule and self-righteous condemnation which seems to be a characteristic of the paradigm of today’s Left”

    *yawn*

    Stow the patriotism. I haven’t ridiculed you until you did it to me first.

    “Shout down and ridicule dissent rather than offer convincing arguments to win allies.”

    Funny… That sounds like the SJW logic of criticism = harassment. That’s just dumb.

    “You, Sir, are part of the reason the Left is going to lose a massive chunk of their voting block.”

    Hey buddy, #Notyourshield.

    I’m not the reason for anything and stop blaming me for shit I didn’t do. If you’re gonna blame someone for the Left, it’s the same argument as SJWs blaming Gamergate for everything wrong with Anita Sarkeesian. That’s bullshit no matter how you slice it.

  • SWulf

    Okay. To be clear, I don’t see this as a team sport. I view things from the lens of Game Theory.

    One of the reasons that two part system keeps forming is small groups get crushed. There is a reasonable cluster of libertarians in the gamer community most are left but some skew right. Most are completely fed up with left-authoritarians and really prefer to roll back control from the state.

    How do we keep from getting crushed by competing with both left-authoritarian and right-authoritarian and right-libertarian, if we choose not to consolidate with right-libertarian?

    Do you see the reasoning?

    Our choice is not Republicans, necessarily; but to ally with right-libertarians for a shot at some common sanity.

    Note: My first read of your response is based on the web page leaving half of your comments out. To be clear, first shot fired was “*facepalm*”. Take responsibility. I’m done quibbling. If you actually have something useful to contribute: spit it out.

    Note: “Great hyperbole. The solution (arguably) is the capitalist system which your false balance ignores. Solving the problem in my view would be the elimination of a system which only supports the richest of us.”

    This part is a load of shit and a misunderstanding of the question. Addressing my question with “Capitalism” is crap because the 1000 year problem is the repeated reemergence of the two party system and the fundamental underlying framework of Game Theory. You are wasting my time.

    You keep misusing false balance. Your entire response is dripping with the desperate attempt to recover dignity while you deny emotion is at play.

    There is additional such nonsense above demonstrating a lack of synchronicity. You seem to arguing with your own mind.

    Except where we seem to share similar concerns over TPP corporate sovereignty laws.

    My questions are sincere and not hyperbole. If you can’t comprehend, admit such and go away.

    You are beginning to look like a troll.

    Nevermind. You seem to lament SJW logic but here:

    “Shout down and ridicule dissent rather than offer convincing arguments to win allies.”

    You respond with this:

    “Funny… That sounds like the SJW logic of criticism = harassment. That’s just dumb.”

    It seems the one word you understood is “ridicule” not the part which clearly says: “offer convincing arguments to win allies.”

    A reference to rational arguments, not harassment.

    SJW logic is to grab onto anything and change the argument to something illogical and unreal. Nice disconnect, you lunatic.

    And nice projection: You are an SJW.

    Please, sit down. You are embarrassing yourself.

  • karmashock

    You have not explained why liberalism is a centrist position nor have you explained what liberalism is in the first place. I can think of four distinct definitions of liberalism which are all mutually contradictory.

    Define what you are talking about, explain what centrism even means to you, then explain why liberalism is centrist, and then show me that your views are at all related to any of this…

    Because I’m about 99 percent sure you can’t do any of the above without looking like a complete clown.

  • Jason Israel

    Have you seen what is happening under this Liberal administration?

    The Super Rich are leaving the Very Rich behind! Scream all you want about Rich Republicans but look at the numbers – The Rich are smart they give money to the loudest and say they they are the same.

    The Robber Barons are NOT the conservative of today the liberals with their crony capitalism and corruption are. Please look at the incomes of the dems in government – Follow the Money!

    Small note – Republicans are just less corrupt, but ask yourself a question, you have seen liberal republicans when was the last time you saw a conservative democrat – I remember them but it has been many years.

  • Alex Torstyn

    As a liberal myself, I was disappointed and unhappy with how what we call the establishment liberals have become more illiberal. I still identify with liberal policy, but the identity politics and 3rd wave feminism have given me the impression that liberalism as left me behind. I am, for all intents and purposes, left me unrepresented.

  • Jay

    “And nice projection: You are an SJW.”

    Hahahahahahahaha

    Oh wait… You’re serious… I’ll laugh harder.

    Look, that’s the dumbest thing you could say and prove your own extremism, bucko. That’s why I’m putting it first. Don’t try to keep arguing against me if your argument has nothing holding it up.

    “To be clear, I don’t see this as a team sport. I view things from the lens of Game Theory.”

    I don’t view politics as a zero sum game but it’s a free country. View it as you want.

    “. There is a reasonable cluster of libertarians in the gamer community most are left but some skew right.”

    Directions are meaningless unless you give them meaning. If you’re going by the Political Compass which had 360 people on it, it was mainly used to debunk one talking point (everyone in GG is a right wing reactionary).

    Hell, I’m not a libertarian, but I was labeled one by it. I wouldn’t take that test at face value because it really isn’t good at determining economic spectrum placement.

    “Most are completely fed up with left-authoritarians and really prefer to roll back control from the state.”

    And you talk for all these people by a test that doesn’t understand economic placement? Fascinating…

    “How do we keep from getting crushed by competing with both left-authoritarian and right-authoritarian and right-libertarian, if we choose not to consolidate with right-libertarian?”

    You take the value of one test to decide your politics? That’s a dangerous game. Particularly when you use a game theory where you have to be for or against others.

    “Our choice is not Republicans, necessarily; but to ally with right-libertarians for a shot at some common sanity.”

    You missed everything I said about the 90s and repeating history. You’re not getting sanity. You’re getting some politics that have continued for the past 40 years since Reagan in the decimation of the middle class and the enrichment of the top 1%.

    “If you actually have something useful to contribute: spit it out.”

    I did. You ignored it. If you got offended by me pointing out exasperation, that’s on you. It’s the internet. Grow up.

    “Addressing my question with “Capitalism” is crap because the 1000 year problem is the repeated reemergence of the two party system and the fundamental underlying framework of Game Theory.”

    Or maybe… You should look at the First Past the Post system and understand that capitalism is only 300 years old in America and you don’t know what you’re talking about.

    Here’s the problems of the First Past the Post system of voting:

    Implementing Duverger’s Law would help by creating a better system like this:

    And that’s just one aspect that your theory ignores. But to say that it’s thousands of years old ignores that Shakespeare was in a position to see feudalism fall in his time:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/02/sharkespeare-marxism-feudalism-capitalism

    While he didn’t have the language, Shakespeare’s works chronicled such a thing in his popular plays. There’s certainly a reason that Elizabeth went to watch these plays.

    ” Your entire response is dripping with the desperate attempt to recover dignity while you deny emotion is at play.”

    All you do is attack others. If you want to remain ignorant, be my guest. That’s not my problem. But don’t project so much.

    “There is additional such nonsense above demonstrating a lack of synchronicity.”

    Good arguments stand up to scrutiny. You’re trying to hide now…

    “My questions are sincere and not hyperbole. If you can’t comprehend, admit such and go away.”

    And my responses are sincere. Answer the damn question and engage and stop trying to dismiss things because you can’t see outside your narrow theory.

    “It seems the one word you understood is “ridicule” not the part which clearly says: “offer convincing arguments to win allies.””

    No, you said this:

    “”Shout down and ridicule dissent rather than offer convincing arguments to win allies.””

    If you want to ignore arguments and not engage then change the rules, that’s on you. I’ve commented and shown you what I’m responding to. You’re trying to change the rules to fit your narrative and that’s intellectually dishonest. If you want to do that, we can end here. But I stand by my arguments and engage just as you’ve decided to engage with me.

    I didn’t shout you down, I responded in kind. Whether you like the response or not is not my issue. But it does go to show you don’t want to keep up with the argument. That’s your choice. You have the freedom to do so. But you can’t say that the arguments are not “convincing” when you refuse to say why except they hurt your feelings.

    “A reference to rational arguments, not harassment.”

    Criticism is still not harassment, kiddo.

    “SJW logic is to grab onto anything and change the argument to something illogical and unreal.”

    Or you know… Dismiss what you don’t like and act like it’s not there. I pointed to historical examples as well as shown pitfalls. You’ve done nothing but ignore so far. Are you afraid of learning something without your bias?

  • Jay

    “Wouldn’t that be like arguing that someone yelling about the second coming of Christ isn’t really a Christian?”

    You’re making a really bad analogy about someone you haven’t read about.

    That’s the issue I have.

    Marx, by his own words, stated how he didn’t like dogma. He wouldn’t call himself a Communist or a Socialist because that’s not something he concerned himself with. You can look up his “opiate of the masses quote and see that he didn’t like dogma.

    Hell, he never made a book on Socialism or Communism. He created Capital to explain the capitalist system. Why do you feel he is some form of ideologue if you know very little about his works or the person?

  • OS-Q

    Does “Manifesto of the Communist Party” not count as his?

    Nobody admits to being dogmatic.

    The Marxist state hasn’t existed anywhere and yet it is inevitable. It is nice that the achievements of Communism can be mentioned in front of Marxists-Leninist-Maoist-Stalinist-Trotskyites-Whateverists but failures are because a mere “Socialist” is responsible or “DUDE IT HASN’T REALLY BEEN TRIED YET!”

    I’ll grant you that Marxists push the utopian part of it more than Marx himself ever did. But would you predict a future that doesn’t appeal to you, and then write and campaign for the people pushing for that future?

  • Interesting thought: if enough truly liberal people like you join the Republicans – the Republicans will, through the wonders of math, change.

    Meanwhile, you may be surprised to find that Tea Party types agree with you on topics you hadn’t expected. The way things are going, it isn’t left/right any more. It’s free/slave, and the schism crosses party lines. Your past will help you reach out to those who wish to be free, and that’s a great thing.

    It may be a walk-on part in the war, but at least it ain’t a lead role in a cage. Glad you are here.

  • David Gray

    The democrats ARE conservative…..
    Their policies come mostly from old right wing think tanks, they adopt right wing policies (and do so to the extent that Bainer can leave negotiations with the POTUS and declare he for “98% of what I wanted”)
    You are living in a fucking FANTASY world if you think the Dem’s are not conservative.
    The genuinely progressive/liberal Dems are a TINY minority, and include people like Elizabeth Warren.
    You know this shit, you just prefer to think in terms of partisan politics.
    You are basically showing your vast ignorance with this comment.

  • David Gray


    Learn to read.
    Go read my comments.
    Be embarrassed for yourself and immediately quit any intellectual pursuits you are engaged in as you are not suited to them.

  • Jay

    “Does “Manifesto of the Communist Party” not count as his?”

    He admitted his failure later on. People don’t realize that when he studied capitalism, he put it all in Capital and found different conclusions from his notes and work.

    It’s like an engineer who studies an equation but finds that he forgot to carry the 1.

    “The Marxist state hasn’t existed anywhere and yet it is inevitable. It is nice that the achievements of Communism can be mentioned in front of Marxists-Leninist-Maoist-Stalinist-Trotskyites-Whateverists but failures are because a mere “Socialist” is responsible or “DUDE IT HASN’T REALLY BEEN TRIED YET!””

    Nope. Because when you study economics, you find out that a certain economic model was tried and it failed. The USSR allowed for bureaucrats to work for the worker, but never put the worker in charge. Socialism is more democratic, but the USSR was the very same type of set up as FDR’s New Deal, which is being decimated by fascist forces now.

    http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/27270-system-change-or-there-and-back-again-capitalism-socialism-fascism

    “Those state officials were to operate the socialized means of production for the benefit of the whole people and as their agent. Traditional socialists understood that change of ownership of the means of production as a central definition and component of socialism. Socialist state officials thus replaced the capitalist enterprises’ boards of directors formerly elected by private owners of the means of production. In the case of non-capitalist means of production (owned and operated by individual peasants, crafts persons etc.), individual private property was often preserved or even expanded (as when the post-1917 Soviet government distributed land as private property to peasants).”

    “It is based on an insistence that the macro-dimensions of traditional socialism – an emphasis on ownership of the means of production and economic planning – be grounded on and interdependent with a micro-level reorganization of enterprises. Enterprises are to be democratized, ending the typical top-down hierarchical capitalist organization (major shareholders select the board of directors that hires the managers and mass of laborers and makes all the key enterprise decisions). Workers self-directed enterprises (WSDEs) would become the mass social and economic base where wealth is generated and revenues are provided to the state.”

    In other words, new methods of fascism and socialism are being tried and will be put to the test as an alternative to the breaking capitalist system.

    “I’ll grant you that Marxists push the utopian part of it more than Marx himself ever did.”

    I highly doubt if you’re mocking Marx, you’ve read anything past Communist Manifesto to comment…

    “But would you predict a future that doesn’t appeal to you, and then write and campaign for the people pushing for that future?”

    He never did. He also never wrote a book about Socialism or Communism. He was a critic of capitalism. I want to emphasize this because what interested him was how the system worked and just like a mechanic, he worked to learn that. If he wanted to predict the future, where’s the book on Socialism he supposedly wrote?

  • karmashock

    I’ve been here all along, sport. You’re saying you’ve done things which you didn’t. The questions I’m asking you are very simple and you’d just rattle off an answer if you knew you weren’t fucked.

    The reality is that you have the intellectual depth of a rain puddle. There’s nothing there and you know it. So you’re just going to bluster on and make stupid boasts hoping that no one realizes you’re a complete fraud.

    The fact that you respond to every challenge for BASIC clarification with idiotic insults merely underscores your vacuous mentality. I would love for you to prove me wrong. People like you are deeply depressing. You wander around pretending to be more then an empty suit and so many believe it because they don’t examine your nonsense with any depth.

    But I’ve watched you through a few discussions and you never back anything up. You just throw up some claims and then whenever asked by anyone for any clarification you issue idiotic insults.

    That’s all you are… a fucking parrot with some social network accounts.

    Eat a cracker and shut up.

  • OS-Q

    I imagine you’ve read Marx’s support of free trade because it supports “Revolution*.” He considered capitalism a stage to be overcome, a means to an end, and what his worldview was partly based on. If this makes him a “Critic of Capitalism” rather than a Socialist, it makes Christians, Muslims, and Manicheans “Critics of Judaism.” Marx felt the best future of mankind was a stateless Socialist/Communist society, just another BS “Brotherhood of Man” scheme to supposedly overcome Class, National and Religious differences and was an old idea when Alexander the Great tried it before drinking himself to death.

    https://www.marxists.org/archive/fromm/works/1961/man/ch06.htm

    Address to the Communist League

    https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/communist-league/1850-ad1.htm

    Opinion on the repeal of the Corn Laws:

    *”But, generally speaking, the Protective system in these days is conservative, while the Free Trade system works destructively. It breaks up old nationalities and carries antagonism of proletariat and bourgeoisie to the uttermost point. In a word, the Free Trade system hastens the Social Revolution. In this revolutionary sense alone, gentlemen, I am in favor of Free Trade.”

    – Marx in 1848 pamphlet

    Bonus Engels quote

    The next world war will result in the disappearance from the face of the earth not only of reactionary classes and dynasties, but also of entire reactionary peoples. And that, too, is a step forward.”
    – Friedrich Engels, “The Magyar Struggle,” Neue Rheinische Zeitung, January 13, 1849

  • Jay

    He considered capitalism a stage to be overcome, a means to an end, and what his worldview was partly based on.

    Right… He liked it and wrote long passages in reverence to Adam Smith and David Ricardo but you’re missing a part of the picture. Yes, he wanted to have Communism, but Socialism was the way to get there. The workers being educated to take over the factories was a part of his analysis along with understanding how capitalism tried to right itself to perpetuate class struggle.

    The fullness of Historical materialism tells him that the best way to go is Socialism, but notice that he never wrote a book on Socialism or Communism. That wasn’t what interested him.

    Now if he was such a BS man… Why is he still talked about now? Why does his dialectic run through gaming as well as other forms of media? I’m sorry, but your logic here somewhat derailed. You claim that he’s a trickster, but that makes no sense. Why would he want to spread falsity about a system he lived in?

    Further, why focus on only the 1850s? Don’t you realize that parts of the CM he thought didn’t work, he later would explain that it would need to be discarded?

  • OS-Q

    I didn’t say he didn’t believe in what he was preaching, just that it is a set of fallacies that smart people throughout history have fallen into. Communism is just the latest and greatest attempt to remove man made borders, so it appeals to people who want that anyway, or that are naturally inclined to believe in utopia.

    My own belief is that mankind desires hierarchy, not equality. That is one reason why attempts at Communism fail. If you look at Soviet Constitution (1977) it states that the Soviet Union is made up of peasants, workers, and “intelligentsia” and of course, you know which of the three was in charge. After the Soviets killed all the people with royal titles, they replaced them with people with similar authorities basing “right to rule” not on bloodline or skill at arms but on accreditation, which is sensible on face value. That is one of the reasons it appeals to intellectuals, because it puts them in power. Who will educate the workers, who decides when the workers know enough? Who will decide WHAT products will be made? That is why Marxist states degenerate into bureaucratic messes, and that is why they become stagnant intellectually because you cannot risk the “wrong” ideas floating around in academia or the public and threatening to overthrow this generation of bureaucrats.

  • Jay

    “I didn’t say he didn’t believe in what he was preaching, just that it is a set of fallacies that smart people throughout history have fallen into. ”

    What, that the economic system that he lived in was above reproach? That similar to Thomas Paine or Frederick Douglass, you can’t look at systemic failures? Come on…

    “Communism is just the latest and greatest attempt to remove man made borders, so it appeals to people who want that anyway, or that are naturally inclined to believe in utopia.”

    I’m sure slavery, feudalism, and other economic ways of organizing societies are perfect as well?

    “My own belief is that mankind desires hierarchy, not equality.”

    Those are far from the same types of ideals and giving people a choice in how a horizontal structure would be democratic. I’d argue you’re deciding on if you want dictatorship over democracy.

    “After the Soviets killed all the people with royal titles, they replaced them with people with similar authorities basing “right to rule” not on bloodline or skill at arms but on accreditation, which is sensible on face value.”

    You’re correct that they believed in a Vanguard Party, but even Lenin admitted that was a state capitalist organization (think FDR’s New Deal and you see the similarities) while not being socialist in economic terms. As said, Socialism is about the workers having control of the enterprise. This wasn’t tried in the USSR (except ironically in farming under Stalin). They exchanged private business bureaucrats with public government bureaucrats and left the worker to toil in the factory while someone else deal with issues. That was basically a similar relationship and why it’s defined as state capitalist.

    “Who will educate the workers, who decides when the workers know enough?”

    The workers themselves because when they have co-ops, they do the work. You should look into the Mondragon co-ops and how popular they’ve become as just one example.

    “That is why Marxist—”

    Let’s just stop right here…

    You are conflating terms and I usually get annoyed when feminists do this.

    The following six terms are not synonymous at all and are the result of 50 years of propaganda by capitalists to ignore the problems of their concentration of wealth:

    Communist, Socialist, Anarchist, Marxist, Terrorist, Muslim

    They have specific meanings and specific terms. To conflate them is intellectually dishonest but understandable given how people in America have never read a book on Marxist theory and don’t realize how much people were sold on bad ideas from right wingers or murdered for such ideas.

    You should honestly look up COINTELPRO 101 or even remember how the state crushed OWS thanks to holding onto the media and using it to crush rebellion and dissent.

  • OS-Q

    I am against all forms of Universalism, I am fine with institutions of Socialism that do not proselytize or use coercion. Co-ops are fine too, because they still have to compete with more traditional forms of capitalism.

    I never argued for the perfection of any system, but we do owe more to the Feudal system than most people realize. The concept of checks and balance as well as the jury system come more from pre-Norman England than anywhere else. The “Enlightenment” saw the rise of autocrats with power that NO medieval monarch ever had, and was the killing blow to elective monarchy in the few countries that it was still practiced in. No Dark Ages king would DARE say something as profoundly arrogant as “I am the State!” like what the King of France proclaimed.

    Iceland’s parliament is a continuation of a Dark Ages government and it had nothing to do with the Enlightenment, and everything to do with Northern European traditions of representative government.

    “Communist, Socialist, Anarchist, Marxist, Terrorist, Muslim”

    Throwing in Muslim just seems like you are mocking someone or building a “Dey took er jerbs!” TEA party strawman. Of course they aren’t the same, but they are not mutually exclusive – one could be all of these things without a problem, even a Marxist Muslim. or perhaps a Marxist-Socialist-Communist.

    COINTELPRO was just another Socialist made weapon that was turned against its creators, until I hear regret over the smearing of Charles Lindbergh and other anti-war conservatives, we owe no tears to Stalin’s apologists. OWS killed itself by letting the more clownish and opportunist cultural Marxists take them over. It has redeemed itself slightly in my eyes by siding with Gamergate, but it is still a tool in the war against the middle and upper-middle class – a war waged by a Faustian alliance of Multi-Billionaires, Acadamics, and Government workers.

  • Pham Newan

    I had my flip a couple of years ago. Not a fun realization that the country has moved so far away from the days of School House Rock. Thank you for the heartfelt post. It made me feel nostalgic.

  • Dennis

    Same old Zython. No one gets him.

  • Zython

    Well, if it isn’t Dennis the Stalker? How’s replying to half-year old posts about topics you don’t get working out for you?

  • Guest

    Hey, if it isn’t Dennis the Stalker. How’s replying to 5 month old posts about topics you don’t understand treating you?

  • Dennis

    Are you still in college? Hillary screwing up in Iowa reminded me of her F-up at Grinnell 8 years ago that got you really mad at her.

    You’ll still vote for her, though, of course. What else are you gonna do, sit this one out? Heh.